Despite their similarity, 〜たり and 〜たら aren’t really related. I mean, there’s probably some etymological parent word somewhere, but in modern times, the meanings aren’t really interchangeable.
Though, to make for smoother English, I’d probably translate this as “when” anyway, as with @Saruko’s translation. A more literal translation would probably something more like “We do things like when it’s dark, make it light with a switch; when it’s cold, make it warm with a switch”, but that really doesn’t flow nicely.
No problem. I’ve made the same mistake numerous times (and still do!). So I’m always checking verb conjugations. I hope someday I won’t have to look it up.
Okay I’ve read the discussion, and the now room is slowly revolving around me, which happens whenever I try to understand grammar. I’m confused… is this the たり~たり construction for “Expressing multiple actions or states”? In which case, why doesn’t it end with する. Or am I (as usual) getting things all mixed up again?
I thought I understood how it works but after reading @Belthazar’s translation and DOJG, I find that I don’t really understand it that well so I’m hoping to hear from others too.
Thanks @trout. I can’t pretend to understand the grammar discussion going on here, but knowing that that is the construction, that it lists various actions, is enough for me. And I guess する / します is dropped for informality. Job done! Thanks again!
DOJG goes into a lot more detail compared to Tae Kim and that’s where it gets kinda confusing but Tae Kim is a good place to start at least.
Edit:
And I guess する / します is dropped for informality.
I was trying to figure out why する got omitted because I don’t think it can be dropped like です to make it informal. From reading DOJG, I think it might be because あたたかくなったり is an adjective and not a verb. Not real sure about this though.
Aye, the grammar dictionary lists a bunch of examples where the する either is or isn’t dropped depending on the main clause. Thing is, this sentence lacks a main clause at all…
Good point! Yes, I think technically speaking it’s an い-adjective converted into an adverb (い→く) which modifies なる。So I think あたたかくなったり as a whole is actually not a verb but an adverb plus a verb.
But あたたかく being an adverb is still not an adjective, so I still don’t know why the する can be omitted after あたたかくなったり.
Yes, I re-read your explanation which you posted last month and it was very good. Actually, DOJG just expands on the concepts presented by Tae Kim by giving more examples and exceptions to the rule. I guess I was having problems with how to incorporate the “do things like ~ and ~ “ into this sentence and also DOJG and Tae Kim mention that it can be translated as “sometimes ~ and sometimes ~”.
Example sentence:
この大学の授業は簡単 だったり 、 難しかったり する。
Class of this college is sometimes easy, sometimes difficult (and other times something else maybe).
But you’re a step ahead of me with this stuff so I’m trying to catch up.
The paragraph in the grammar dictionary on whether or not you can omit する is talking about the main predicate - what comes after the 〜たり in the sentence - there’s always a verb before the 〜たり, because that’s just plain how it works. On closer reading, though, that paragraph is only discussing the rules of what happens when there is something that comes after - in this case, there’s nothing, so I guess the する can safely be dropped if desired. Perhaps it’s the “sometimes ~ and sometimes ~” definition mentioned in the header.
Yea, I should have read it more carefully and it would be nice to have something explicitly stated saying that it’s OK to drop する if there’s nothing that follows. (But since there’s no rule stated about this, I guess we’ll just make up our own.)
)