しろくまカフェ: Week 5 Discussion (Chapters 9 and 10)

Page 48 bis

Shirokuma: シャンパン。ドンペリ風 ウフフフ
シャンパン - champagne
ドンペリ風 - Dom Pérignon style
ウフフフ - tee hee hee
Shirokuma: Champagne bread! Dom Pérignon style! Tee hee hee…

Shirokuma: 一番の力作がコレ…
一番 - the most
の - possessive particle
力作 - tour de force
が - topic marker
コレ - this (in katakana)
Shirokuma: And this is my tour de force…

Panda: 何味 - what flavour?

Caption: トレパン - sweatpants

Shirokuma: 最後の審パン
最後 - last
の - possessive particle
審パン - 審判 (しんぱん - referee/judgement) written as パン to make a pun with the word bread
Shirokuma: The Last Judgement (by Michaelangelo)

Panda: しろくまパンより ダジャレパンにしたら?
しろくまパン- Shirokuma bread
より - than; other than; more
ダジャレ - bad pun
パン - bread
にしたら - にする with する changed to conditional form したら. This reference says that に する indicates change caused by something or somebody.
Panda: (Suggested loose translation) Perhaps we should call it “bad pun” bread rather than Shirokuma bread…

Bear cupcake (below last panel): トリパンは多分ちょっぴり塩味
トリパン - Sweatpants bread
は - topic marker
多分 - perhaps
ちょっぴり - a little
塩味 - salty tasting
Translation: Sweatpants bread is perhaps a little salty tasting

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Page 49, bis version

  • Panel 1

    • Penguin: こんにちはー
    • Penguin: Helloo
  • Panel 2

    • Panda: あッ コウテイペンギンさん

      • あッ - Ah
      • コウテイペンギンさん - Emperor Penguin (name) (皇帝ペンギン)
    • Panda: Ah, Emperor Penguin

    • Penguin: パンダくんもきてたの

      • パンダくん - Panda (name)
      • も - also
      • きてた - came (shortened formed of the past form of the ている form of 来る)
      • の - (explanatory の, turns it into a question)
    • Penguin: You came here, too, Panda?

  • Panel 3

    • Shirokuma: この時間にくるの珍しいね

      • この - this
      • 時間 - time
      • に - (target/indirect object particle)
      • くる - come
      • の - (nominalizing particle)
      • 珍しい - unusual, curious
      • ね - right?, isn’t it?, etc.
    • Shirokuma: It’s unusual for you to come at this time, isn’t it?

    • Penguin: ちょっと出掛けててサ~

      • ちょっと - a little
      • 出掛けてて - getting out, leaving (short form of the て-form of the ている-form of 出掛ける)
      • サ - (assertive emphasis)
    • Penguin: I just got out a little bit ago (Not really sure what the purpose of the て-form of いる is here, unless it’s just because it connects to Penguin’s next statement? Or is it just part of a casual way of speaking? Or possibly I’m just wrong about it being いる at all?) (After some discussion and research, it seems likely to be the sort of soft “the reason for” usage of the て-form, as in "I just got out a little while ago [and I’m here at this unusual time]” (borrowing from Shirokuma’s question just before.))

    • Penguin: アイスティーちょうだい

      • アイスティー - ice tea
      • ちょうだい - please
    • Penguin: Ice tea, please

  • Panel 4

    • Penguin: 自動車教習所に通ってるんだ

      • 自動車教習所 - driving school
        • 自動車 - automobile
        • 教習所 - training institute
      • に - (target/indirect object particle)
      • 通ってる - going to, attending (shortened form of the ている-form of 通う)
      • ん - (explanatory)
      • だ - (copula/declarative)
    • Penguin: Because I’m going to driving school

    • Panda: えっ すごい!

      • えっ - oh
      • すごい - amazing, wonderful
    • Panda: Oh? That’s amazing!

    • Shirokuma: へー

    • Shirokuma: Really?

    • Penguin: 今日も教習所のかえりなんだよね

      • 今日 - today
      • も - also
      • 教習所 - training institute
      • の - (possessive/modifying particle)
      • かえり - return, coming back
      • なん - (explanatory)
      • だ - (copula/declarative)
      • よ - (assertive emphasis)
      • ね - right?, isn’t it?, etc.
    • Penguin: I’m on my way back from school today, too

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I think it’s just that the action of going out is still in progress at the time (because Penguin is stopping at the cafe on the way to his destination).

Ah, I read it as him saying he’d just left the school, but actually he’s on the way there now?

Hmm. Really good question, actually. The translations of 出掛ける really feel like it suggests that he’s just starting a trip. But the next line about 教習所の帰り seems to be saying he’s on his way home from from the driving school… I’m not really sure how to parse all the grammar in that one, though.

The Sanseido basic definition for 出掛ける is just 「外出する」, which doesn’t necessarily seem to suggest any immediacy to the act of leaving. So he might still be in the process of “going out” if he’s been to the driving school and is now on his way back, I suppose.

What’s confusing me most right now is the use of 「今日も」in that latter sentence. What is the concept of “today” being added to here?

I thought it was like “I’ve been going to driving school, and I also went there today.” So “today” is being added to the times he did the repeated/habitual action in the past.

Yeah, that makes some sense.

The parse I’m getting from that sequence of sentences is roughly “I’m going out for a bit, because I’m going through driving school. Today, too, I’m on my way home from the school.” It feels kind of disjointed, but I’m not sure if it’s because there’s something in the grammar I’m missing, or because a literal English transliteration just doesn’t capture the flow of it very well.

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I did a Google search for こぐまのミーシャ, and actually had a matching Wikipedia page come up first result. Looks like it was a 1979-1980 anime about a bear cub (こぐま) named ミーシャ. Google Image search for the Japanese title results a lot of images of the character.

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Since はじめる can refer to starting up a business, I wonder if it also is used to essentially mean “we’ve started up bread as a product in our cafe”. If I were releasing an English-translated version of this manga, I’d probably go a bit loose and write, “Introducing Shirokuma bread.” It doesn’t match the Japanese (past) tense, but I’ll go ahead and say that’s life when going between two such different languages.

The real issue, though, is that there was no actual しろくまパン on display. Pandaパン, Choパン, Peter パン, Lupパン, but not a single polar bearパン to be ordered.

Edit: Adding as an edit so I’m not posting too many times.

I encountered はまる in another manga, where a character says 「はまっちゃったんだ」 referring to how she’s gotten “addicted” to drinking coffee (in a lighthearted sense). For Shirokuma, I took the line to be something like, “Except for kneading, I’ve really gotten into it.” I could be wrong, though. (Edit 2: Maybe “despite” in place of “except for”?)

Edit 3: Just saw the link for はまる as slang, and now agree with the “super into” translation.

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Thanks. I’m sure I did that exact search and came up blank.

I think I did…

Also in this panel, Shirokuma makes the side comment, 芸術. Looking it up, I see it’s read as げいじゅつ, and has a meaning of “(fine) art, the arts”.

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Edit: I agree with others stating this is the “reason for” meaning of the て form. I’m preserving my original comment before for the information included, but it does not apply to the て form as used here.

I’m not able to find many posts on てて that actually give me a solid understanding, but this post on "gendered language states:

A way to use the imperative form in a way that’s feminine (but not restricted to females) is to sometimes add an extra 「て」 at the end of the standard imperative form. This makes it stronger.

I’m not certain of this meaning, though, as it seems to be in contrast to さ. In the book, “How to Tell the Difference Between Japanese Particles”, on pages 167-168, author Naoko Chino writes:

さ indicates that what precedes the particle is not to be taken seriously, is something obvious, or is a matter of course. It is typical of casual every day, masculine conversation among friends and family.

She also states that さ is in contrast with よ, so think of it having the opposite meaning of that.

Edit: Now here’s something interesting, although I don’t know if it’s the use here.

From “A Dictionary of Japanese Particles”, on page 178, author Sue A. Kawashima writes:

In the patterns てさ and とさ, introduces something that was said by someone else.

What is the meaning is along the lines of “I was told to 出掛けて”, being commanded (imperative form) to go out. Like, “My wife told me to get out of the house for a bit”? Maybe? No?

Edit 2: Replaced two instances of “contract” with “contrast”. This is the thread for thinking one word and typing another, right? Maybe I just need to take a bread.

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This made me curious again, since it doesn’t seem like it could be an imperative form. I did a little more searching, and I have found some references to it indeed being a shortened て form of ている.

And here’s one about ててさ specifically, even (well, でてさ, but it’s the same thing): words - Meaning of てさ after て form - Japanese Language Stack Exchange

And that got me thinking about why Penguin would be using the て-form. It doesn’t seem to be a command. Or a normal conjunction, since nothing follows it directly.

But て form can also be used as a sort of conjunctive “this is the reason for” form. To use an example from A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar: ワインを飲みすぎて頭が痛い, “I’ve drunk too much wine and have a headache.”

So it could be that usage, in reverse, to mean like “I just left a little while ago [and I’m here at this unusual time]” (borrowing from Shirokuma’s question just before.)

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I’m pretty sure its just the ~ている form

Here’s another link on てて. While this one goes along with parts of my other comment that suggests a command, it’s just a matter of that’s what came in next in my search. The idea of it being a “this is the reason for” meaning is one I’ll definitely look into more, because that sounds like it fits the scene.

http://yesjapan.com/YJ6/question/4156/are_there_other_ways_to_use_the_te_form_of_verbs

With 待ってて and 食べてて and other times when there is a double て
the い that should be there is just missing.
 
So the verbs in question are 待っていて and 食べていて.
 
Although it does seem weird to have a “command / request” form of the “ongoing / present tense” it’s really common. The meaning doesn’t change. So saying 待って versus 待ってて is the same thing.

A separate post I saw described 見てて as “look at this and keep watching”.

Right, that’s what I thought as well. What I’m not sure of is why it’s the the いる part of the ている is also in the て-form.

Yeah, that makes sense, but I still don’t think there’s any reason to think what Penguin is saying is the command/request form–he’s not telling Shirokuma to leave. And, if he was quoting someone else’s command, it would be って, not just て (and in which case the it would just be a regular て-form he was quoting.)

It might ultimately just be one of those vagaries of normal speech, like often ending sentences with various conjunctions like が.

edit: After a little more digging, I think my guess that it’s supposed to be the “reason/cause” conjunctive use is correct. I’ve found quite a few explanations of て-form being used to end a sentence that confirm that use, and it makes sense in context as well. For instance, here: grammar - Why is there て form at the end of the sentence? 先生もいっしょにいらっしゃらないかなと思いまして - Japanese Language Stack Exchange

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Page 50

  • Panel 1

    • Penguin: パンダくんは免許持ってたっけ?

      • パンダくん - Panda (name)
      • は - (topic marker)
      • 免許 - license
      • 持ってた - have (past form of the ている-form of 持つ)
      • っけ - (recalling particle–indicates the speaker is trying to recall the thing they’re asking about)
    • Penguin: Do you have a license?

    • Panda: ううん 持ってない

      • ううん - no
      • 持ってない - don’t have (negative form of the ている-form of 持つ)
    • Panda: No, I don’t have one

  • Panel 2

    • Shirokuma: 免許あったほうがなにかと便利だよね

      • 免許 - license
      • あった - existed
      • ほう - (comparison marker, 方)
      • が - (subject marker)
      • なにかと - one way or another
      • 便利 - convenient
      • だ - (copula/decalartive)
      • よ - (assertive emphasis)
      • ね - right?, isn’t it?, etc.
    • Shirokuma: Having a license is convenient, isn’t it?

    • Penguin: でも苦労してるよ

      • でも - but, however, etc.
      • 苦労 - trouble, hardship, labor, etc.
      • してる - doing (shortened ている-form of する)
      • よ - (assertive emphasis)
    • Penguin: It’s hard work, though

  • Panel 3

    • Penguin: 今日もジューレツチューシャができなくてサ

      • 今日 - today
      • も - also
      • ジューレツチューシャ - parallel parking
      • が - (subject marker)
      • できなくて - unable to do (て-form of the negative form of できる)
      • サ - (assertive emphasis)
    • Penguin: Like, today I wasn’t able to do parallel parking! (I think the も here is like “also, in addition to all those times I’ve been working hard,” but I can’t come up with a good way to include “also”/“too”, etc. in the English in a way that makes sense, so I went with “and”.)

    • Panda: ジューレツチューシャ?

    • Panda: Parallel parking?

    • Panda: Pair of well park king? (Changed this just to clearly indicate Panda doesn’t understand what ジューレツチューシャ means.)

  • Panel 4

    • Shirokuma: 難しいよね

      • 難しい - difficult
      • よ - (assertive empashsis)
      • ね - right?, isn’t it?, etc.
    • Shirokuma: Parallel parking sure is difficult, huh?

    • Penguin: ねー

    • Penguin: Right?

  • Panel 5

    • Panda: ジューレツチューシャ・・・
    • Panda: Pair of well park king?.. (See above.)

I read this chapter originally thinking the entire time that ジューレツチューシャ was just a nonsense word, and the joke was Panda kept trying to figure out this made-up phrase, because I couldn’t find it in the dictionary, even breaking it up in to pieces, and Googling only turned up references to しろくまカフェ for me.

While writing this translation, レツ jumped out at me for some reason, as 列, as in “row”. Then it finally occured to me, since we’re talking about driving, that シャ was probably 車. Given “rows” and “car”, I started to suspect it might mean “parallel parking”, considering Shirokuma said it was difficult… And bam, there it was, after searching “parallel parking”. The trick was to finding it the other way was to convert it fully to hiragana, so じゅうれつちゅうちゃ. Leaving the “ー” in there for the long vowels made it impossible to find in Jisho.

Anyway, I learned something important about using the dictionary today, and figured I’d share :wink: Hopefully that might help someone else in the future.

edit: Looking forward, I see that the first guess Panda made is literally “10 cars in a row”; that probably should have clued me in on the meaning in the first place. But sometimes you get an idea stuck in your head, and no amount of information will dislodge it until you come back at it later. That’s what happened to me when I was reading this chapter the first time through.

Also, I see someone added the word to the vocab spreadsheet, though when I was originally reading, the sheet was blank for this chapter, so I didn’t “cheat” from there :wink:

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Why not “And I wasn’t able to parallel park today either”?

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Good bit of detective work there. I kinda added that to the vocab sheet the day we started on this chapter, though. :stuck_out_tongue:

Welcome to the joy of using katakana for stylistic reasons. This is one of the things you’ll probably get the hang of when reading manga - if there’s a word with long-vowel marks that you can’t find in the dictionary, then step one is to try it with vowels instead. If that still doesn’t work, try short vowels.

Yotsuba is a big fan of using long vowel marks in place of regular vowels. The obvious one is that she calls her dad とーちゃん, but you’ll find it all through her speech.

Considering Panda-san has no idea what he’s saying, I wonder if this line should just… not be translated? Guess that’s just a stylistic choice, though…

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I usually start reading the day before, so I’m ready to discuss, ask questions, etc. once the thread is up (I do that since my actual time I have available to read each day is pretty consistent, but also at a fixed, which ends up meaning if I wait for the thread, I end up not reading until the next day, so I figure better a slight head start than not being able to participate at the start.)

I considered that, but it’s basically the same problem as trying to translate the puns in a way that keeps the pun. Maybe it could something like like “Pair of well park king?” or something like that.