You Can Now Prioritize Your Reviews by "Apprentice First" (plus, Kanji Hoverpocalypse™ updates)

Jatacid will be happy to know that you can now prioritize your Reviews queue by “Apprentice first” and “Lower SRS Stages First.”

The idea here is that items at lower SRS stages (especially Apprentice timings) should be studied more on time than items at higher SRS stages. If you miss an Apprentice review by a week or two, it can be a big deal (you’ll be more likely to be unable to recall it). If you miss a burnable review by a couple weeks, you’re probably going to be okay. We wanted to make it easier to get those weaker memories recalled on time.

This is also actually part of a couple updates to the dashboard that we’re working on now (see, I told you, dashboard updates!). More on that lower in the post. If you love hovering over your current-level kanji to see when they’ll come up next, stay tuned. You’re about to be pleased and/or moderately disappointed.

The new review order options are:

  • Apprentice First: This prioritizes your Apprentice Items in Reviews first. Then randomizes the rest of your (Guru+) items. If you usually finish your Reviews, I think this will be a good option for you. On days when you’re busy, or have too many reviews to do, you can finish your Apprentice items first and then go back to carving shokupan sculptures—or whatever it is you do when you’re busy.
  • Lower SRS Stages First: This Reviews ordering is similar to Apprentice First, but this one just does them all in order of SRS stage groupings. Prioritizes reviews by Apprentice → Guru → Master → Enlightened.

That said, if you’re pretty much always caught up on your Reviews pile, I’d still recommend Shuffled as your ordering of choice. It’s the best one for study, I think. But, for those of you who are busy and can’t spend every waking hour doing Reviews, you can use one of these to at least get through your Apprentice reviews. Others (cough) might use this to help them level up as quickly as possible… anyways, I hope these new Reviews ordering options will be helpful.

You can change your Review Ordering in your Review Settings.

Okay, let’s talk dashboard.

I know some of you would give both kidneys to get next review time hover back on the kanji. Review queue ordering is related to that—but don’t remove your kidneys just yet. I have some bad news and I have some (mediocre?) news, and I couldn’t tell you which one is which.

Let me first share what’s coming up:

  • We’re planning to add a “priority” reviews indicator option to the reviews forecast. This will tell you when Apprentice-level items will become available in your Review pile.
  • We’re also planning to add a “priority” reviews indicator option to the Reviews widget. This will tell you when you have Apprentice-level items in your Reviews queue.
  • We’ll add longer forecast ranges as well, so you can see a little further out (e.g. 7 days).

The idea with these features is that:

  1. You’ll know when Apprentice items are coming and can plan accordingly to schedule when you’ll do your Reviews.
  2. You’ll know when Apprentice items are available in your Reviews, so you can prioritize doing them.

This is the plan for addressing the kanji hoverpocalypse. Which, I suspect, isn’t going to make everyone happy. First of all, I’m sorry. Habit and workflow is really important. We really pulled the chair out from under you on that one. Hovering over kanji as a part of planning / workflow was a thing I never imagined people were doing. Total blindspot. I think that’s been there since the beginning, or pretty close to it. That means it’s been there for 10-15 years! Some people used it a lot.

But this plan to address it is not “bringing it back.” I’ll share my thought process on how we landed on this plan, though. And, I hope you continue to share your feedback and opinions about it / ask for a return on one or more of those kidneys you offered. We also asked for you to share how you used the old hover feature (and wow did you deliver!). So many posts in the forum, emails, chat… quite a bit of variation in terms of how it is used. Here are the main buckets:

  1. Doing your “level up” items on time / scheduling yourself to do reviews for these level up items. Especially for radicals and kanji. You used it to help yourself to level up faster.
  2. Some people wanted to manage their Review load, see when Apprentice items are coming to time their Lessons around these waves.
  3. Finally, the third group liked to hover over available kanji to… cough… “review” them before starting their Reviews… :thinking:

There were combinations of two or three of them, too.

From there, we came up with these “priority reviews” options. It’s actually something we’ve had on the back burner for a while. Finally, with widgets, we can do it. It’s nice to be able to make features that are options and not forced on anyone.

When these options are added, the information in your forecast and Reviews queue will allow you to know when Apprentice items are coming (so you can plan ahead, schedule when you’ll do your Reviews, etc), and it will tell you when you currently have Apprentice items in your Review queue (so you can do them sooner rather than later). Combined with these new Review Ordering options, I think you’ll be able to prioritize and do your “important” (Apprentice) items more quickly, more on time, etc.

Now for the “bad” news. Or maybe it’s the mediocre news?

Within of these “priority” reviews, we’re not going to distinguish between radicals, kanji, and vocabulary. My guess is that there will be requests to pull out or distinguish items that are important for level-ups, e.g., “indicate Apprentice Radicals and Kanji of the current level.” The reason we’re not doing that is for a few reasons, but mainly:

  • All apprentice items are priority — i.e. they are more likely to be forgotten, more quickly.
  • I also didn’t want to say “current level items” are more important than previous level items. When you level up, those vocabulary items from the previous level that appear are important to continue to add some more of that varied context to your kanji understanding.
  • I don’t want to discourage people from learning or spending time in the vocabulary. An option to only indicate radicals / kanji would imply that vocab isn’t important when really it’s probably the most important of the three item categories we have right now.
  • I don’t want to encourage people to level up quickly for the sake of leveling up.

I know not everyone will agree with all this, but I am trying to make these decisions from the perspective of “what will help people to learn the most across the entire RKV spectrum.”

That said, I do think that the Reviews and Forecast indicators for “priority” reviews will get most people a replacement for what they wanted when they were hovering over kanji. It’s not exactly the same, but I’m hoping you’ll find it more useful in other ways—maybe to the point where you can live without kanji hovering.

We’re still working on these, but I wanted to give everyone an update on what we’re thinking and doing.

I am now prepared to receive your thoughts.

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That’s pretty good! I will miss cutting down through the jungle of reviews to get to my Apprentices, but let’s see how it goes :smiley: . Shuffle might motivate me more to get everything done and not just the miminum, so I will probably be one of those who stay “vanilla” :stuck_out_tongue:

In your opinion, does this makes it “easier” because you could guess what could come up? Just curious about your personal philosophy about it :slight_smile: . Im sure this option will be useful

would ? you should have received them in your mailbox any day by now…

Thank you for acknowledging it! I mean it

Not faster, “on time” :slight_smile: . Merely following the SRS timings is just following the SRS, not making it go faster.

I do not really know what this would look like, but I really hope that it is not hidden between 3 clicks 5 scrolls and a fishing minigame. (fishing minigame widget when ?)

Would you be open to more feedbacks if this new feature genuinely doesn’t help us achieve more “on time” reviews as we were able to do before with hover? I understand your idea about mixing the vocabulary, but as I have maybe 15/20 lessons of vocab per day, there is no way I will be able to find the kanjis, or at least I think so (I still have to try this feature, because maybe I will have have this “sense of time” back with it).

Today I have again “lost” 5 hours because I didnt get the timing correct (although I was available / had free time to do the reviews). This time is starting to add up.

All hoping for this honestly! It’s not about the “hover” for the sake to hover in particular, but about being able to locate oneself / kanjis in time, to be able to follow a timing, a schedule. Structure really helps people like me who are very disorganized / ADHD diagnosis.

Overall not good or bad, I am just looking forward to see if this helps us get our “sense of time” back.
As someone else put it,

“By analogy, it feels like living in a world where I have a calendar that tells me how many events I have in a day, but not when they are or what they are.” (@Shikaschlep the wise)

tldr; i really just need the ability to see “oh i need to do my very important to time right kanjis in 5 hours” back, I hope that does it! If it does, we can celebrate @drackyslime

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Wow, priotizing by SRS is a game changer if you have an infinite (5 years worth) pile of reviews. Thanks :clap::clap::clap:

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Oh and I want to add, maybe as feedback for team, that the way I have been able to “replace” the hover and to find back the work structure that I need to not become a chaotic mess and miss all my review timings :

  • Learn kanjis in two batches of 15(+)
  • Use personal calendar and put the timings / hours where they will fall in them
  • Optional: check on the kanji pages (Two different kanjis bc two batches/ two timings) the timing if near it

Now, there is a 25% chance that I forget about checking my calendar (like today) and mess up, but it is not totally killing my timing. Needs more effort though, sadly.

Very honestly, if I didnt have ADHD, i would probably never mess it up. It is probably comforting for most of the userbase, but sad for me, I guess

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wow, and it only took twelve years? :rofl:
joking aside, i’m sure people will be happy to have a vanilla way to sort their reviews
i’m just hoping all this doesn’t mess up reorder omega even more :pensive_face:
yes, i’ll still need it because i do more than just filter apprentice items

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I’m going to wait to be fully critical (or hopefully unconditionally applauding!) of the hover replacement stuff until I can see and feel it in action- but if you’re asking/expecting some immediate thoughts and feedback;

I got you covered.

Anyways, I think for the time being I have a slightly confused but largely positive thumbs-up based on what is outlined here. Anything would be an improvement compared to the simple non-existence of an option we have at this very moment, and luckily this isn’t feeling like a “breadcrumbs off the floor” barest-minimum-to-satiate solution either. The effort to do something meaningful is good, and I thank you for it. 叩頭-ing as I type this, even

Forecasts having more information than just a green bar + number is something I’ve actually requested in the past, and this is a step in the right direction to providing extra context- which I really like. Doubly so with the reviews options. Neat stuff.

That being said, it still is a little bit odd that such a radically different and unrecognizable method in bringing it back is what was elected here. Actually, I think that even you think it is a little bit odd too considering the language in this announcement doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence-

  • “I have some bad news and I have some (mediocre?) news”

  • “Which, I suspect, isn’t going to make everyone happy”

  • “I think you’ll be able to…”

  • “I know not everyone will agree with all this”

And with that kind of precedent set I can’t help but wonder… this is a problem that didn’t exist until a (non-disruptive) feature was taken away. Why bend around the easy solution here if it is reliable? I guess to me it still doesn’t seem to fully bridge the gap of both immediate specificity and convenience the simple hover used to have- and some of the justification (like this line)

from my perspective seems something the user should have to concern themselves about, not be policed by the program structure?

I’ve been one of the most vocally grumpy about the hover feature being removed but never in a million years would I have ever linked the idea that Kanji-planning was disruptive of my vocab studies. In fact, the biggest reason I was so in-love with the Kanji hovering was that it let me better articulate when I could finally reach the new vocab (which I find to be infinitely more useful for Kanji practice than anything else by a landslide). If all apprentice items are katamari-d into one singular variable for forecast planning- then the utility of knowing when you’re going to have content-unlocking review items specifically is effectively lost via drowning? I don’t know, it just seems like an inherently weird choice even if I promised to reserve judgement too harshly for now.. I guess we will see..

For one last bit of commentary, I just have to say please do not repeat history with blindsiding, community-shaking change again. I really, truly, earnestly appreciated your apology and acknowledgement that a lot of us felt rug-pulled by some of the recent changes- but I hear you saying in this post “we’re not going to…” , “the reason we’re not doing that is…” and I’m wincing a little bit at the idea that community untested/unproven, no option to dip-toes-in change is on its way again with a firm decision on its implementation. We’ve been sending our kidneys to you for a reason- I even drank a bunch of extra water first so they’re in mint condition!- and it’s because all of us users want to have proper input beyond just hoping an email or forum post afterwards is enough to maybe fix the blemishes. I still struggle with the Kanji hover being gone, I still struggle with the new non-dashboard UI- I wish that leading up to their universal implementation I could’ve given it a test run or peek into the nuances and detailed what I like/dislike before it became the status quo in hopes that the final product didn’t make me have to rally with users here in disapproval. I’m not saying that this specific upcoming change is going to spark more of it- I said I’d wait!!!- but worst-case-scenario I would like to avoid the type of frustration that has painted the last couple weeks of using WK.

I know this post is long and maybe a little harsh, but it’s because I love WaniKani to death and treat it with a lot more value than most programs- because I know you treat us with more value than most other businesses to their users. You make big posts with a personal voice and read/connect with everyone who replies- and when you’re putting so much effort in I want to unconditionally reciprocate that kind of enjoyment.

“Thank you WaniKani”, we all say in unison..

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I’ve got my party hat on standby!

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Well said @drackyslime. :sign_of_the_horns:

Still a few items left on the agenda cough large kanji tiles, list views to return cough :sneezing_face:

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I’ll have to see the widget in action, but I like the idea of the priority review indicator as a replacement to the “hover to discover” approach from before.

I definitely fall into the category of users that would mouse over the apprentice-level kanji to see how long each one will take to appear again. If some would appear before bed, I’d do my reviews at night. Otherwise, I’d just wait and do all my reviews the next morning.

In hindsight, the old way was pretty inefficient because it required mousing over each kanji, and it didn’t include vocabulary, which I agree is just as important. Even as someone that doesn’t fixate on what level I am, I do still like the idea of leveling up and unlocking more stuff. I guess it’s just human nature. That being said, I don’t try to level up for the sake of leveling up, but it’s hard to ignore when I’m in that awkward time at the end of a level, just before unlocking a new wave of radicals, kanji, and vocab. That’s why I liked knowing when certain kanji would be available in the first place.

Anyway, I’m looking forward to seeing the priority review indicator because I think it sounds really useful.

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But will this bring back the summary page?

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bingo.. Having 15/20 new apprentice items a day will drown these in no time, i got like 180 apprentices these days.. BUT like you, I will wait and see :slight_smile:

I echo with everything you said great post! Thanks for sharing.

This made me laugh a bit, because if any other product company advertised me their product like this, I would probably be scared lmao :laughing: . But I hope this lack of confidence is like someone having a A+ graded test and saying they dont deserve it..

About user “tests” or “pre-approval”, I cant speak for Koichi, but it’s also a given people in this forum are part of a “niche” amount of users of the platform. And even if maybe the most vocal/advocate can also give the best feedbacks, they dont represent the users in numbers, so I dont think the forum is a good system for this. A/B Tests, user tests with interviews and other stuff direct to website can be found I am sure

Standby… :lizard: :woman_s_hat:

Edit :

As I write this post, I realize I have missed my 3rd kanji apprentices SRS timing, which means I had to do it this morning 7.8 hours later , and will delay me 2/3 days… Here is the quantifiable impact of losing the ability to time the SRS (system based on timing and repetition) : I miss timings of important apprentice items (those that will take 2 days to come back), and lose time everyday. I wasnt salty or truely negative until now, so now that I am tilted, I think this is becoming ridiculous of a situation, directly impacting our time, just because a few people could have used this system to cheat (who cares) …

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Why tho? You addressed how you came to the alternate plan, but not why wouldn’t want to “bring it back”.

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Will the default settings remain unchanged for the rest of us or will we have to change it on the settings to get old settings back?

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One thing I would like to see is a better emphasis of your current level - I currently keep the “level up” graphic at the top for this reason (instead of dismissing it), but it would be nice to get that vertical space back on my dashboard. The level progress widget does show your current level, but in really small text, so I wonder if it could possibly be tweaked to better emphasize where you’re at in your progression?

Alternatively, turning the “level up” popup into an actual place-able, resizable widget (not unlike the “days studied” widget) would be pretty cool. I really like the design of that graphic!

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I do miss the old level progress layout, personally. The new one feels a bit vertically squished, and hiding your progress of radicals/kanji/vocab behind a click is kind of a bummer because realistically I’m just never going to click through to check them. The three progress bars just aren’t really hitting the same way in terms of tracking my progression at a glance, if that makes sense.

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I get this sentiment, but this is the Wanikani landing page:

“Just over a year” is only possible if one is going full speed and spending several hours per day on Wanikani, which is a pace not many people are capable of maintaining and often leads to burnout. If the intention is to encourage learning and spending time with all the material, not prioritizing kanji reviews for the sake of leveling up, does that not conflict with the messaging of the site?

I’m happy about the native reorder function, though, I often only have time to do 20-30 reviews and it’s nice to prioritize Apprentice items in those cases.

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I’m going max speed, it takes 2 - 2.5 hours per day. I don’t think that wanikani takes up that much time even at max speed

This feels like the oldschool MMORPGs when they shed their hardcore base for the more casual newer playerbase, kinda ironic how the max level is 60 too!

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Personally, I do not get it. You cannot go faster than what the natural SRS timings allows you to, so I dont understand all this negativity around going “fast”, which just means following the SRS timings to a T, which takes efforts and time. Even going “fast” would take more than a year, and hours of focused work everyday.

If the issue is a few people “cheating”, why impact so many people by removing entire features? Why not just let these people sabotage their japanese learning experience ? Why not remove also all the meanings of the words, because people can look them up right before reviews? Do I need to ask for a written authorization to do reviews next ?

Sorry I am tilted because I missed a timing due to not having the hover tool, and will waste 2 days waiting for my items

Thankfully, someone updated this [Userscript] Dashboard Progress Plus 2 - #8 by sanshoo
Which allows me to check the timings multiple times a day and not miss any. It is worse than the hover tool because it also gives me the meaning and writing of the words, which promotes cheating, but so be it at this point, if WK cannot technically allow the hover feature back but wont say so.

And sorry to be so salty but after a few weeks of being optimistic, and losing days from reviews delays on my goals, I am allowing myself to be negative now. :angrykoichi:

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Lol I feel like I’m the only one who didn’t use the hover function. But anyway excited for the new widgets when they do come. So glad to see the team continuing to improve functionality and content. The :crabigator: has not forsaken us :durtle_noice:.

Gimme back the big kanji blocks and add native dark mode then I will be a content :black_cat:.

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Without a way to track user it’s hard to say, but I am sure most people did not use it. What I am sure of is that most of the fast pacers used it to time their reviews and follow their goals, and so when it got removed, they spoke up about it. People who weren’t using it didn’t notice it removed, so they didnt have much to speak about it

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