夜カフェ ☕ Chapter 5 (Beginner Book Club)

Japanese Language Book Clubs
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夜カフェ :coffee: Chapter 5 (Beginner Book Club)

Start date current chapter: 30 April 2022
Previous chapter: Chapter 4
Next chapter: Chapter 6
Home thread: 夜カフェ Book Club Home Thread
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We are reading the first volume of 夜カフェ as the Beginner Book Club!.
This thread is for chapter related discussion. We are reading together from the aforementioned date on, but this thread will be kept open mu~ch longer (like 10 years longer). So don’t be shy to ask questions even if you are late to the party :heart:

Vocabulary List

Feel free to add any words you looked up as well! Page numbers may be off by one or two because of differences between physical and digital editions, but we try to keep the words roughly in order of appearance

The book is also available over at koohi.cafe (formerly known as floflo).

Discussion Guidelines

  • Please blur / hide any major events in the current week’s pages (however early they occur), like so: [spoiler]texthere[/spoiler] result: texthere
  • When asking for help, please mention the page number, and check before posting that your question hasn’t already been asked
  • Join the conversation — it’s fun!

Participation poll

  • I’m reading along
  • I’m planning to read but haven’t started yet
  • I’m from the future and reading way later
  • I’ve read ahead already/read the book before
  • I’m not reading, just passing by

0 voters

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page 62 describing some eggs… 。。。ふわとろの卵。。。

I think this is ふわふわ＋トロトロ, but can’t find any thing that shows them together contracted, but I think it’s just soft/fluffy and creamy eggs…

(any thoughts?)

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I think viewing it as a combination of ふわふわ and とろとろ is likely not inaccurate.

For what it’s worth, weblio does have an entry for ふわとろ. Seems it’s used pretty much exclusively for cooking, and the texture described is perfect for omelettes (as in オムライス), or pudding. I bet it could even apply to scrambled eggs, or really anything that could be described as “fluffy and creamy”.

While I’m here, I will share the one thing in this chapter that really stuck out to me:

Thoughts on the chapter

I had a bit of a chuckle when they showed 山田星空 without any furigana. It’s honestly rather fascinating to me the little tricks that authors can pull as a result of kanji having multiple potential readings. I mean, you might have some odd spellings in English, where you’re left looking at a word or name and going, “How is that said?” But it’s not really the same. As a bit of an aside, it reminds me of how Way of the Househusband relied on using kanji to show what the character was actually referring to, but a totally different word as the furigana to show what he actually said.

It’s really fun, if a bit difficult if you haven’t come across that kinda thing before!

I just really enjoyed the sensation of seeing a name, being able to assume the reading for half of it, but being left in the dark as to how the other half is said, because the protagonist is also totally unaware of how one might read it. Perhaps it’s just me, but it caught my attention and was probably the most interesting part of the chapter for me (speaking on a grammar level.)

Seeing that 星空 is read as ティナ, I am guessing からあげ girl is from overseas, or half-Japanese. I’m excited to see how that plays out!

As for other parts of the chapter, I have to say, I like that Hanabi immediately realizes how rude she is coming across when she spoke her mind. That isn’t to say she shouldn’t say how she feels, or that her concerns are wholly misplaced, but when she sees how it affects the person she is talking about, immediately feeling contrite is a good trait, I think, and her making a card of apology and signing it as Yamato-kun’s roommate was really sincere and sweet.

I had my doubts, at the start of the club, that this book would have much for me to connect to, or that would resonate with me (since I’m not yet a parent, and middle school days were a decade and a half ago for me). I felt like it would be more of something to learn from, that would be mildly enjoyable at best, but as we really got into seeing Hanabi’s situation, and the more we read and find out, the more I’m finding myself wanting to continue. Stopping at each chapter each week is starting to get harder and harder. It’s almost entirely thanks to time constraints that I’m resisting. :laughing:

I’m definitely looking forward to continuing on with you all! :grin:

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Funny I must have made a typo then when searching weblio before posting… :thinking:
…
Ohhhh… Pudding… Now I want some!

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Boy. Every chapter the father is in, I like him less and less :sweat: I’m glad Hanabi stuck up for her mom.

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Alright, I’ma fix this.

I have been one week behind since chapter 2 because I only read this book on the weekends (just finished chapter 4 today). –I’m going to be finished with chapter 5 by Friday– That way I am no longer playing catch up and can ̶a̶c̶t̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶t̶r̶i̶b̶u̶t̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶v̶e̶r̶s̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ helplessly ask questions before someone else does.

Feel free to ignore this post, just a little bit of accountability. Cause I apparently need that in my life or I just get consumed by anime.

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I’ve just finished chapter 4. I was doing ok at first then work got in the way.

Having most of the difficult bits already discussed was helpful to catching up!

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Is this normal:

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Yamato’s room’s door’s under’s hole, that’s 5 levels of nesting.

Just finished this chapter, most of it was very easily readable, but then Aiko decided to have a page long monologue about yamato, and that wasn’t as simple.

Not sure, if this is a common thing in Japan, but I don’t think a postcard would really work as an “I’m sorry” thing. Also, Aiko should’ve talked to Hanabi about the situation Yamato is in, as it’s quite obvious, that it was odd for her that he was here. All in all, really enjoying the story, got through it in a very short time as well, which was nice.

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That happens a lot in spy x family, and I heard it’s used very heavily in something like FMA as well (and some junji ito works iirc)

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I also had some trouble with that monologue. It had an increased amount of vagueness in it for me, to the point that I got annoyed at Hanabi for showing no problems in understanding exactly what was meant :sweat_smile:

Let me explain my annoyance sentence by sentence

ただ、ヤマト君ね、今のお母さんはお父さんが再婚した人で、あまりうまくいってないんですって。

First of all, is this Aiko speaking about what Yamato said to her, or Aiko repeating what she said to Yamato? It doesn’t make much difference, just wondering.
Second of all, is it clear, without context, from this sentence alone, whose relationship is not going well? Is it the relationship between father and new wife, or the relationship between Yamato and stepmother?
(今のお母さん is a strange turn of phrase to me, but so be it.)

その人も良くしてくれるんだけど、どうしても亡くなったお母さんがわすれられなくて、ついくらべてしまうからなのかなって言ってた。

その人 - I take it to refer to the stepmother, but again, is it 100% clear? Without context, couldn’t it be referring to the father or Yamato himself?
って言ってた Yamato said that to Aiko, I guess? Makes sense from context, but again, it’s not 100%, right?

食事はお母さんが作るんだけど、ヤマト君は、自分の分は自分で作ると言ったんですって。

Two quotes here, “said that (s)he said”. At first I wasn’t sure at all whether the stepmother told Yamato to make his own meals, or if Yamato said that he would, but upon more careful examination I feel (pretty) certain it’s the latter, or the verb wouldn’t be in plain form like that.

ヤマト君ったら、自分がいないほうが家族がうまくいくんだなんて言うんですもの、ほっとけなかったの。

ったら expresses annoyance. Aiko’s at Yamato? Is it clear what role Yamato plays in the sentence? Topic? Subject? Object?
自分 is just as bad as その人 in vagueness. It could be referring to Yamato or the stepmother (even Aiko for interfering! :rofl:) So who would be the family better off without? Yamato or the stepmother?
ほっとけなかったの Aiko couldn’t leave Yamato alone? Yamato could not leave it alone? His stepmother could not ignore his behaviour? Things in general couldn’t stay like this?

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That monologue was the worst for me too, and I completely agree that it was really vague. I think I got the gist, but basically the whole page was marked red because I didn’t understand details (or whole sentences) afterwards.

Some conjecture about the monologue

I might be completely wrong there, but I took the です as an indication that this is Aiko-san repeating what Yamato-kun said politely to Aiko-san.

Maybe it’s clear for Hanabi because the stepmother was marked as the topic of the previous sentence?

I think this might be “Meaning 2) speaking of​ ~ (topic marker particle which is not always negative)” mentioned here on JLPTSensei. Bunpro also mentions that: “If it is not used at the end of a sentence and directly after a noun (A) expressing a person/pet then it works similarly to the topic particle with a nuance of intimacy or criticism - “oh that A”. In that case, だ cannot be used with ってば/ったら”.

So I’d interpret it as a topic. “Criticism” doesn’t really fit here for me, but maybe it can express frustration over someone’s situation too?

Also, 頑張ってね！ for those catching up!

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All very good points! Especially the です shows me (yet again) that what I perceive as vagueness is just me missing some vital clues that are right there! :sweat_smile: I’m sure there’s more.

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I found it pretty clear who said what to whom. And yes the last sentence is aiko saying because yamato is saying to aiko that he thinks the family is better off without him is the reason she couldn’t leave him alone. The tara I interpreted with a nuance of criticism from aiko towards yamato for thinking the family would be better of without him.

Basically Omk3 got all the “interpreting” correct as far as my short skim over your posts are concerned.

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I really found the quoting particularly useful… Albeit not easy…

Sometimes you want to say something in English along the lines of “my friend said his boss said x…” or “she told me that her friend said y”. Always kind of wondered how on earth to do these nested complicated sentences… But now I learned at least one way to do it… :blush:

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The context is, that Aiko is admitting that it is strange to have an almost adult male stranger living in her house. So it is a logical consequence that she is explaining why this happens:

ただ = It is just that… ヤマト君．．．って = Yamato said (this is especially true because now an array of three sentences follow ending with って so she is repeating what he said to her. For the relationship, because obviously Yamato left the house, it is a problem that is affecting him. It is not clear yet why and at this point it could also be a problem between the father and the new wife that’s affecting him that’s why Aiko is explaining more to Hanabi in the next sentences.
今のお母さん in my interpretation is used by Aiko because obviously that’s how Yamato calls her and お母さん is the ‘position’ of the new wife of his father.

In Japanese the relationship between people is very much defined by how they are addressed. Aiko could have also said あいつ with a completely different connotation. It is really about the connotation that is intended here that she uses 今のお母さん which implies that it is the current wife and not the real mother but she is trying to be a mother to Yamato and not a bad person.

With その it is referring to the topic from before which is 今のお母さんは (that’s the purpose of は to define a topic that could be talked about for a longer time like in this case). This is very clear.
And still the sentence end with ～って and that makes it a continuation of what Yamato told Aiko because everything started with ヤマト君ね、．．．

ヤマト君ったら expresses the opinion of Aiko like ‘stupid little boy’ in a sense that she herself doesn’t think the family would be better off without him. 自分 is also very clearly talking about ヤマト otherwise Aiko would have used 私. ほっとけなかった means, the subject still being Yamato, that he couldn’t leave things as they are (himself being an annoyance to his family) and left the house (in an attempt to restore things). It is maybe a Japanese way of thinking based on the idea that you don’t wan’t to become a 迷惑 to others…
[/spoiler]

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What threw me a bit is that she doesn’t go from admitting that it’s natural for Hanabi to wonder about it to explaining Yamato’s situation, but inserts ヤマト君だって、「うちにいてもいいよ。」って言ったら、びっくりしてたもの。, which I take to mean that Yamato was also surprised when she offered that he could stay with her. Continuing from that, I thought she might conceivably be quoting what she said to the surprised Yamato rather than the other way round.
It’s not that I don’t understand what is going on, especially when reading the whole thing together. It’s that I feel there are other possible interpretations (especially if you look at each sentence separately) and that bothers me. I’m sure there aren’t really, and it’s just me failing to interpret some things accurately that makes me think so. :upside_down_face:

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Everyone has this problem with Japanese I think :kissing_smiling_eyes:
Getting a bit used to it, the ただ、ヤマト君ね、is quite typical to start a disclosure of other peoples secrets :sweat_smile:
It’s a bit like whispering ‘Don’t tell anyone, but Yamato told me…’ in my impression. Also the commas are not mandatory in Japanese and indicate some slowing down to increase the effect maybe.

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I interpreted this ほっとけなかったの、as Aiko talking about her own feelings with ヤマト君ったら自分がいないほうが家族がうまくいくんだなんて言うんですもの being the reason, since this is the end of Aiko’s explanation of why she let him stay there. Something like “since he said something like ‘Without me the family will go better’ I couldn’t leave him alone.”

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True, sounds plausible. Also because he accidentally met Aiko.

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Alright, I finally had time to sit down and re-read the passages that I had more trouble with in chapter 5. Here’s my first batch of questions this time around:

ebook page 49:

  • それでも遅刻ギリギリだっ た。
    Is that “Even then (even after leaving 30 minutes earlier than with the other home), I still was a little bit late”?

ebook page 50:

  • 帰り道、ティナちゃんとよばれた女の子をはじめて見かけたコンビニによってみた。
    Is that によってみた “I gave stopping at the konbini a try (to see whether maybe Tina-chan was there”? This one was surprisingly hard - I first was confused by how it looked like によって, and then after I got that thanks to a DeepL translation, I got confused by the みた. Took a while!

ebook page 51:

  • その笑顔とは似合わないくらい、うちの中はしーんとして、暗い気がした。
    I searched a bit and I assume the くらい is something like this, but I can’t really pin down how it makes sense in the context of the sentence. I think I got the remainder of the sentence - the smile didn’t fit him, it was completely silent in the house, it “felt dark” to Hanabi.

ebook page 52:

  • ハナビに、出ていかないように言ってくれってことだったけど、それなら仕事をことわればいいんだよ。
    I’m not really sure if that’s something like “I told her that she shouldn’t leave because of Hanabi, and that for that reason it would be better to refuse the job.” or “This is about telling Hanabi that she shouldn’t leave, and that for that reason it would be better to refuse the job.”. Or maybe “I told her to please tell Hanabi not to leave, and that for that reason it would be better to refuse the job.”?
    Thinking about it, there are multiple details in the sentence that are mysterious to me:
    • The exact function of the に in ハナビに (although that might become clearer once I understand the other mysteries).
    • The てくれって. てくれ + quotation particle? I have no idea what くれ is though, then.
    • The ことだった.
    • Why does the second fragment end in けど?

ebook page 54:

  • 結局、最後のお客さんが帰ったのは、閉店時間ギリギリの五時少しまえ。
    I’m a little confused about how the different parts of the last fragment play together. Does 閉店時間 stand on its own or is it connected to ギリギリ? Is it [閉店時間ギリギリ] の [五時少しまえ]? Or [ギリギリ] の [五時少しまえ]?
    Researching a bit more… is it [閉店時間ギリギリ] の [五時] + 少しまえ? Literally “At the very limit of the closing time of 5 o’clock, a little before that”? Still, even if it’s that, I’m confused about the ギリギリ placement. Maybe I just haven’t seen it often enough yet.
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