# WK keeps teaching vocab\>kanji\>radical instead of radical\>kanji\>vocab **URL:** \ **Category:** Feedback\ **Created:** [April 30, 2023, 4:50am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665 "2023-04-30T04:50:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SageOnWanikani](https://cdck-file-uploads-global.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wanikanicommunity/original/3X/f/d/fd4c154120954695f788402f3bcf4e616499bc2d.png) [@SageOnWanikani](https://community.wanikani.com/u/SageOnWanikani)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 4:50am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/1 "2023-04-30T04:50:18Z")
The order WK teaches radical, kanji, vocab seems backwards a lot of the time. Frequently teaching vocab\>kanji\>radical instead of radical\>kanji\>vocab. Wastes a lot of user’s time having to self-study radicals and kanji to be taught them a few levels later by WK. It’s become kind of a mini-game at this point wondering when WK will teach the components for the these unknown radicals/kanji being used. ---
**Author:** ![Leebo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/leebo/32/439476_2.png) [@Leebo](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Leebo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 4:58am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/2 "2023-04-30T04:58:42Z")
Can you give an example of a time you’re taught the vocab before the kanji? ---
**Author:** ![SageOnWanikani](https://cdck-file-uploads-global.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wanikanicommunity/original/3X/f/d/fd4c154120954695f788402f3bcf4e616499bc2d.png) [@SageOnWanikani](https://community.wanikani.com/u/SageOnWanikani)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 5:19am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/3 "2023-04-30T05:19:02Z")
Here are some that come to mind in a few minutes. There are many hundreds like this. There are vocab items you learn that include kanji and radicals you haven’t learned. Then WK teaches them 3-10 levels later. 時 before 寺 働 before 動 同 before 𠮛 速 before 束 例 before 列 食 before 良 福 before 畐 階 before 皆 ---
**Author:** ![Leebo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/leebo/32/439476_2.png) [@Leebo](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Leebo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 5:25am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/4 "2023-04-30T05:25:53Z")
Maybe I just don’t understand the “vocab before kanji” part of your complaint. These don’t seem to be examples of learning vocab before kanji, the way that WK treats those terms. Like, you don’t learn the vocab item 寺 before learning the kanji 寺. Additionally, it appears to me that you do learn 寺 as a radical before you learn 時. The “radicals after kanji” part, the fact that kanji you learn get compressed into single radicals later even though you “already know them,” has been a complaint for a while, and is a result of the system requiring kanji to be built from only radicals and not other kanji you already know. If you’re more interested in a system where the order is based on only methodically teaching “full” parts before the kanji, regardless of how useful those kanji are (where like, I believe you learn stuff like 旦 really early even though it’s not exactly useful to beginners), Heisig may be more to your liking. ---
**Author:** ![Belthazar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/belthazar/32/4469_2.png) [@Belthazar](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Belthazar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 5:31am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/5 "2023-04-30T05:31:26Z")
> [@SageOnWanikani](#): > > 時 before 寺 These are both level seven items, which means the kanji isn’t even unlocked before you Guru the radical. I’d thought it possible that WaniKani was teaching 時 as sun+dirt+measurement, and I’d wondered if the issue you were raising was WK’s habit of reintoducing kanji components as radicals later on for simpler menmonics, but that’s not what’s going on in this situation at all. Maybe you’ve got some script that’s doing something to the lesson order, but I’m not sure even scripts can make kanji precede their radical components. > [@SageOnWanikani](#): > > 𠮛 This isn’t something that WaniKani teaches at all. WaniKani doesn’t look to introduce every possible kanji component as a radical, only the smallest number necessary to create mnemonic stories from. ---
**Author:** ![SageOnWanikani](https://cdck-file-uploads-global.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wanikanicommunity/original/3X/f/d/fd4c154120954695f788402f3bcf4e616499bc2d.png) [@SageOnWanikani](https://community.wanikani.com/u/SageOnWanikani)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 5:34am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/6 "2023-04-30T05:34:46Z")
You can get the basic gist of what I’m saying or poke holes in my argument. 寺 is vocab for level 15. Should be enlightened by now. 𠮛 is the closest character I can link that represents WK “creeper” and it is in WK. ---
**Author:** ![Leebo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/leebo/32/439476_2.png) [@Leebo](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Leebo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 5:35am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/7 "2023-04-30T05:35:17Z")
> [@Belthazar](#): > > WaniKani doesn’t look to introduce every possible kanji component as a radical, only the smallest number necessary to create mnemonic stories from. Or sometimes more parts if they think it makes a more interesting mnemonic. ---
**Author:** ![Belthazar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/belthazar/32/4469_2.png) [@Belthazar](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Belthazar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 5:37am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/8 "2023-04-30T05:37:00Z")
> [@SageOnWanikani](#): > > 𠮛 is the closest character I can link that represents WK “creeper” and it is in WK. Oh, so it is. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![Leebo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/leebo/32/439476_2.png) [@Leebo](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Leebo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 5:40am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/9 "2023-04-30T05:40:10Z")
> [@SageOnWanikani](#): > > You can get the basic gist of what I’m saying or poke holes in my argument. > 寺 is vocab for level 15. Should be enlightened by now. > 𠮛 is the closest character I can link that represents WK “creeper” and it is in WK. So is your complaint more that you would just prefer てら as a word was taught closer to 寺 the radical? I mean, I can understand the desire for that, but there are a lot of moving parts in a system like this, so I’m not sure it can be done without introducing a lot of quite “useless” vocab into the mix. Like 猛 is composed of 犭 and 孟, but 孟 is a quite rare kanji that mostly appears in names. That is an extreme example, but it seems to me like the kind of thing that would happen if this were held to strictly. ---
**Author:** ![SageOnWanikani](https://cdck-file-uploads-global.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wanikanicommunity/original/3X/f/d/fd4c154120954695f788402f3bcf4e616499bc2d.png) [@SageOnWanikani](https://community.wanikani.com/u/SageOnWanikani)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 5:42am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/10 "2023-04-30T05:42:03Z")
If that symbol is never a radical or kanji that would make sense. If it eventually is a radical or kanji that you have to learn anyway like what keeps happening it’s silly. ---
**Author:** ![Leebo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/leebo/32/439476_2.png) [@Leebo](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Leebo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 5:44am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/11 "2023-04-30T05:44:21Z")
There’s no reason that WK couldn’t teach 孟. It has onyomi and kunyomi readings. I’m not sure I understand the comparison, because it almost seems like you’re saying it would be okay if 寺 wasn’t taught as a word? If you agree that it’s okay to ignore some words, then readjusting the order a bit should also be okay, to me anyway. ---
**Author:** ![SageOnWanikani](https://cdck-file-uploads-global.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wanikanicommunity/original/3X/f/d/fd4c154120954695f788402f3bcf4e616499bc2d.png) [@SageOnWanikani](https://community.wanikani.com/u/SageOnWanikani)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 5:46am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/12 "2023-04-30T05:46:30Z")
That is one of many complaints to do with how things are sequenced yes. The simple statement of the problem is vocab\>kanji\>radical. But that manifests in a lot of individual problems. vocab\>kanji is a problem. kanji\>radical is a problem. vocab \> radical is a problem. radicals, kanji and vocab that have the same meaning being spread across 10 or more levels. Lots of problems. ---
**Author:** ![Leebo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/leebo/32/439476_2.png) [@Leebo](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Leebo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 5:47am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/13 "2023-04-30T05:47:55Z")
Like I said above, perhaps Heisig is an order you’d prefer more. WK is mostly based on balancing complexity with usefulness, but if order of complexity is your primary preference, then another system probably will suit your tastes more. ---
**Author:** ![SageOnWanikani](https://cdck-file-uploads-global.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wanikanicommunity/original/3X/f/d/fd4c154120954695f788402f3bcf4e616499bc2d.png) [@SageOnWanikani](https://community.wanikani.com/u/SageOnWanikani)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 5:49am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/14 "2023-04-30T05:49:17Z")
Ya I can’t make a post on this forum without that recommendation. Like it’s not a forum for feedback or something kinda annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Leebo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/leebo/32/439476_2.png) [@Leebo](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Leebo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 5:50am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/15 "2023-04-30T05:50:17Z")
I’ll stop annoying you by discussing the topic then. Have a good one. ---
**Author:** ![SageOnWanikani](https://cdck-file-uploads-global.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wanikanicommunity/original/3X/f/d/fd4c154120954695f788402f3bcf4e616499bc2d.png) [@SageOnWanikani](https://community.wanikani.com/u/SageOnWanikani)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 5:58am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/16 "2023-04-30T05:58:41Z")
Ya your specific examples are helpful but the WK isn’t for you is frustrating. Give feedback of wanting undo button = WK isn’t for you Give feedback of wanting to mark items burned = WK isn’t for you Give feedback of wanting to change lesson rate = WK isn’t for you Give feedback of wanting logical sequence changes = WK isn’t for you I’m just giving my feedback. Still using WK. Hope you have a good one too. ---
**Author:** ![SoulLessPuppet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/soullesspuppet/32/586729_2.png) [@SoulLessPuppet](https://community.wanikani.com/u/SoulLessPuppet)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 8:09am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/17 "2023-04-30T08:09:31Z")
I have two things to say, briefly and positively 🙂 1. according to [jisho.com](http://jisho.com), 時 is the 16th most used kanji in newspapers out of 2500. 寺… 879. Which means that if WK thaught the items in the order you want, it would take dunno, 80 levels to be useful to anyone, i think 2. You are low level still, so what I say now might have not happened to you yet. You keep going. you go on, and on, and burn stuff. And in a lesson you bump in a kanji that’s a radical that you are supposed to know. And you think. What the hell is THAT. you learn it. And then you think: “thank god I got the chance to review that”. When you will get to level 44 and will learn 侍, you will have no problems whatsoever because you learned 寺 at level 14. I really feel like WK uses an SRS built within a SRS, and I love it ---
**Author:** ![Belthazar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/belthazar/32/4469_2.png) [@Belthazar](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Belthazar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 8:16am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/18 "2023-04-30T08:16:19Z")
> [@SoulLessPuppet](#): > > Which means that if WK thaught the items in the order you want, it would take dunno, 80 levels to be useful to anyone, i think Or it means that newspapers talk about the time of day more often than they talk about temples. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/original/4X/6/2/a/62a8b0f4c59ff2c5b6651ffcf43531480b3e5297.png) [@system](https://community.wanikani.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2024, 8:16am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/wk-keeps-teaching-vocabkanjiradical-instead-of-radicalkanjivocab/61665/19 "2024-04-29T08:16:37Z")
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