Why do people study Japanese Grammar In English?

When I first learned Spanish I went to a language school in Spain and the rule was that even for absolute beginners (genuinely zero knowledge) you are not allowed to speak anything other than Spanish in class. We were all sitting around at breakfast on the first day not believing that this would work, but it genuinely does! The thing is, I don’t think this would work as well in any other setting, e.g. after-work lessons you do once a week in your home country. The school had books and other materials that they’d designed themselves and these were heavily based around imagery in order to convey certain concepts. There’s also the fact that European languages are very similar which means that in many cases it just doesn’t require much explanation until you get to the higher levels.

I can certainly see the same approach working in a school in Japan for students with a slightly higher level of understanding, but I can’t really imagine it working for regular classes elsewhere or on a forum like this. I think in many cases it’ll be more efficient to explain grammar in English and to improve fluency with lots of examples and speaking practice.

And yes, I agree that the whole thing comes across as a bit elitist. After all, it’s definitely better for people to learn Japanese using English as a “crutch” rather than not learning at all.

EDIT: Actually, on the first day of those Spanish classes I remember one moment where one guy just wasn’t getting the teacher’s explanations and examples and nothing was helping. Eventually I broke the rules (I’m impatient lol) said about 5 words to him in German and he got it. We went back to Spanish after that and moved on, sometimes that’s just necessary.

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Agreed. Glad someone called him out on it.

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Just wanted to point out that the English you demonstrated in your posts in this thread is better than a lot of native speakers here in America :sweat_smile:

I agree with your base point that Japanese grammar is explainable in English, but do be wary. Most English explanations of a lot of things I have seen in textbooks and stuff don’t really take the best perspective and can easily cause misunderstandings, at the very least making it seem like there are more “exceptions” to learn than there really should be.

Just wanted to point out that the English you demonstrated in your posts in this thread is better than a lot of native speakers here in America :sweat_smile:

That’s just because of the simple phrases. Trying to convey something complex would result in a terrible mish-mash of American and British vocab with random tenses and missed articles :smiley:

I agree with your base point that Japanese grammar is explainable in English, but do be wary. Most English explanations of a lot of things I have seen in textbooks and stuff don’t really take the best perspective and can easily cause misunderstandings, at the very least making it seem like there are more “exceptions” to learn than there really should be.

Well I’d say it has to do more with knowledge of the concepts than with the language of the explanations per se. For example, I see that Japanese particles are not usually described in English as case markers - in languages with cases it probably wouldn’t be like this, and these particles would be connected to the cases from the beginning (which would be useful).

I could say the same thing about your use of romaji. When I first started learning Japanese my class was given one week to learn hiragana and then after that we weren’t allowed to use anything but Japanese scripts. There are endless resources that teach you Japanese in Japanese, which is far more efficient. The languages are very different. What’s the point of trying to equate Japanese characters to English letters while learning? It just seems like a crutch to me.

I think one important difference is that this is a community of mostly self language learners. It is a very different environment from a classroom setting where you have the benefit of a teacher to interact with in real time and get feedback from when you don’t understand things.

I have taken many different types of language classes. I’ve had Spanish classes both primarily in English and in Spanish, my Italian classes were almost 100% Italian, Russian was mostly English with a good amount of Russian, Japanese started with quite a bit of English, then transitioned to 100% Japanese, sign language classes where no one was allowed to speak at all. I understand how good it can be to have a class entirely in the target language. When I lived in Japan, I would run workshops for junior high and high school English teachers (both Japanese and foreign) teaching Italian only using Italian from the first minute to show that it can be done. I also understand struggling through a grammar explanation in Japanese from my teacher. It took a while to get the concept I was practicing, and I never actually understood what I was saying. I made an endless stream of mistakes, and didn’t understand why they were mistakes until someone said about 5 words to me in English and then it all clicked. The grammar point btw was 〜かどうか

The main difference is that these are all classes with a teacher who is there to support you. We are not a community of teachers, we are a community of learners, and the primary language used in this community is English, so that is what people use.

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It’s easier for many people to understand the concept/meaning/feeling behind the grammar point if they know what it means in their native language. Everyone learns differently. If you don’t need an English equivalent, then good for you.

This is something that bothers me a lot about Duolingo. No explanations of the grammar. Eventually, given enough failed repetitions, I can remember a pattern, but only in the specific examples they give, and I don’t really understand what it does or why it works as it does. It doesn’t really feel like “learning” per say. I have to supplement with other sources like Genki so I can wrap my head around it.

I’ve learned everything to “early intermediate” in English. I feel that I learned the necessary foundation and had basic understanding just fine.

When I started reading native things, it provided a different perspective and further insight on points I was already familiar with.

I don’t feel too strongly about learning one way or the other - I can comprehend a lot of Japanese now, so I’m pretty satisfied with that.

Also someone mentioned grammar sources in Japanese and one that is fun and beginner friendly is nihongonomori youtube videos. The beginner ones do show that gestures go a long way…

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日本語の森 videos are great. かわま先生 is a really good teacher, I think. It always looks like shes having a bunch of fun when I watch those videos. The other N5 videos that Stevie does are great too, although those are in English. Most of the stuff he covers is the same stuff I see in the Genki textbook, so its nice having a supplement where an actual person can go over the grammar points as well.

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