# Week 11: ユージニア 🌹 **URL:** \ **Category:** Book Clubs\ **Created:** [January 13, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/week-11-%E3%83%A6%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%8B%E3%82%A2/60135 "2023-01-13T21:37:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NicoleIsEnough](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/nicoleisenough/32/87285_2.png) [@NicoleIsEnough](https://community.wanikani.com/u/NicoleIsEnough)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/week-11-%E3%83%A6%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%8B%E3%82%A2/60135/1 "2023-01-13T21:37:32Z")
[Join the Advanced Book Club here!](https://community.wanikani.com/t/x/44685) [ユージニア 🌹 Home Thread](https://community.wanikani.com/t/x/58693) ## Week 11 ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/original/4X/e/8/4/e84bd85906a93d627e4d385467bf51b7cb601b0a.jpeg) **Start Date:** Jan 14 **Previous Part:** [Week 10](https://community.wanikani.com/t/x/60043) **Next Part:** [Week 12](https://community.wanikani.com/t/x/60233) ## Reading: | Week | Start Date | Chapter | Start Page | Page Count | | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | | Week 11 | Jan 14 | Chapter 13 | 347 | 31 | ## Discussion Rules - Please use spoiler tags for _ **major** _ events in the current chapter(s) and _ **any** _ content in future chapters. - When asking for help, please mention the chapter and page number. Also mention what version of the book you are reading. - Don’t be afraid of asking questions, even if they seem embarrassing at first. All of us are here to learn. - To you lurkers out there: Join the conversation, it’s fun! :durtle: ## Participants Mark your participation status by voting in this poll. (Please feel free to update your status whenever you like!) _Poll ([view on site](https://community.wanikani.com/t/week-11-%E3%83%A6%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%8B%E3%82%A2/60135/1))_ ## Proper Noun Readings > **Previous Proper Nouns** > > | Name | Reading | Notes | Proof | > | --- | --- | --- | --- | > | 青澤 緋紗子 | あおさわ ひさこ | the blind girl (ca. 12 yo at the time of the event) (Week 1) | | > | 雑賀 満喜子 | さいが まきこ | ch. 1 narrator (Week 2) | | > | 順二 | じゅんじ | ch. 3 narrator’s older brother (Week 3) | | > | 誠一 | せいいち | ch. 3 narrator’s older brother | | > | ヒサ / 久代 | ひさよ | the blind girl from week 1 | | > | マキ | | ch. 3 narrator (young girl) | | > | 相澤 | あいざわ | doctor whose birthday is being celebrated | | > | 相澤 祐 | あいざわ たすく | blind girl’s younger brother, youngest son of the family | | > | キミ | | ca. 15 year-old maid of the Aizawa family | | > | 青澤 望 | あおさわ のぞむ | eldest son of the Aosawa family (Week 4) | | ---
**Author:** ![omk3](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/omk3/32/411137_2.png) [@omk3](https://community.wanikani.com/u/omk3)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2023, 8:02am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/week-11-%E3%83%A6%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%8B%E3%82%A2/60135/2 "2023-01-14T08:02:57Z")
Good chapter. We get to meet both mysterious characters of this whole saga in one go: Hisako and the interviewer. pm215 had it right: the whole investigation we’d been following had been triggered by the brother’s suicide letter. The rest also seems to be more or less how we pictured it (minus wild twin theories). Hisako can change the impression she’s giving off at will, and goes from innocent to pure evil in seconds. And it’s been the constant noise that’s been driving her crazy. Committing mass murder for the sake of silence - I love the mundanity of the reason, and the cold-bloodedness of her manipulation. (someone had asked who she could possibly trust to ask them to burn down a house - there’s our answer: people who no one else would trust or pay any attention to 😬) What I’m mostly confused about is who’s point of view we’re reading. Most of the book has been from the point of view of the interviewer, listening to people’s answers. The detective’s first chapter, and the fragments chapter were the only exceptions (possibly also the files chapter, although the interviewer could be reading them). But in this chapter it gets blurrier. It starts normally enough, with the interviewer thinking and speaking, Hisako speaking, then it looks like we start getting Hisako’s point of view more and more. Those things about her waking up, reacting to the noise, thinking about what was to come, that didn’t look like something she said aloud. So was the chapter multiple points of view at once? Was the interviewer imagining those scenes? Did Hisako actually recount them? Sorry, club, but there’s no way I’m waiting another week to finish the book now 😁 ---
**Author:** ![pm215](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/pm215/32/510099_2.png) [@pm215](https://community.wanikani.com/u/pm215)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/week-11-%E3%83%A6%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%8B%E3%82%A2/60135/3 "2023-01-14T15:10:22Z")
> [@omk3](#): > > So was the chapter multiple points of view at once? Was the interviewer imagining those scenes? Did Hisako actually recount them? Mmm. The book has been throwing in these other-point-of-view scenes for ages, generally flagged up by the third-person-pronouns. The first of these made sense because it was the extract from Saiga’s book, but from the first detective chapter on it’s been unclear to me what they were. The “I didn’t actively do anything, is it a crime if I just didn’t say I suspected something was going to happen?” line from Hisako is interesting, given that we know from the brother’s letter in the preceding chapter that he basically did that. ---
**Author:** ![omk3](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/omk3/32/411137_2.png) [@omk3](https://community.wanikani.com/u/omk3)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2023, 5:38pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/week-11-%E3%83%A6%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%8B%E3%82%A2/60135/4 "2023-01-14T17:38:17Z")
I think that within any given chapter though, the point of view was specific (although I seem to remember writing about something like this before, so maybe not?). This time we’re presented with what seem to be Hisako’s private (and possibly past) thoughts, intermixed with the interviewer’s thoughts and actions occurring at the time of narration. Are these actual thoughts by Hisako, or in the interviewer’s imagination? Or is there something else going on? > [@pm215](#): > > The “I didn’t actively do anything, is it a crime if I just didn’t say I suspected something was going to happen?” line from Hisako is interesting, given that we know from the brother’s letter in the preceding chapter that he basically did that. I’ve noticed many such lines in the novel that would fit multiple characters. I really like how the lines of guilt are blurry, and how everyone seems to somehow feel complicit even if they objectively did nothing, or very little, wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Escalus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/escalus/32/498056_2.png) [@Escalus](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Escalus)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 3:35pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/week-11-%E3%83%A6%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%8B%E3%82%A2/60135/5 "2023-01-15T15:35:25Z")
Looks like we’re in danger of having the most boring possible ending: the obvious suspect did it, in an unexciting way, for uninteresting reasons. This last chapter has a lot of heavy lifting to do. Could all of these deaths have been prevented if Hisako had just asked for some decent earplugs for Christmas? I’m a bit worried that the Prologue will just be the first time she noticed that something was wrong with her vision (because the flower was white instead of red). ---
**Author:** ![omk3](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/omk3/32/411137_2.png) [@omk3](https://community.wanikani.com/u/omk3)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/week-11-%E3%83%A6%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%8B%E3%82%A2/60135/6 "2023-01-15T16:02:05Z")
> [@Escalus](#): > > Could all of these deaths have been prevented if Hisako had just asked for some decent earplugs for Christmas? 🤣 In some seriousness though, if you’re already blind surely you don’t want to deprive yourself of yet another sense. You just want it to not be constantly bombarded with unneeded information. I’m not saying the solution is to kill everyone in a two-mile radius, of course, but maybe earplugs wouldn’t have solved the problem either. Communicating her needs might have. ---
**Author:** ![pocketcat](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/pocketcat/32/422463_2.png) [@pocketcat](https://community.wanikani.com/u/pocketcat)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 6:16am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/week-11-%E3%83%A6%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%8B%E3%82%A2/60135/7 "2023-01-16T06:16:28Z")
> [@omk3](#): > > Communicating her needs might have. This would take the majority of my books on my shelf down to \<10 pages. You can’t have people _talk to each other_ otherwise from what conflict will you derive the plot?! Although seriously, I think the writing style is supporting a rather weak story. I’m still happy to be reading it, but I think this book’s pull is due more to keeping you on your toes guessing what’s going on (something the English version seems to have removed? I hope it’s as fun for the English readers!) than providing an emotionally impactful story/mystery. ---
**Author:** ![omk3](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/omk3/32/411137_2.png) [@omk3](https://community.wanikani.com/u/omk3)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 6:31am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/week-11-%E3%83%A6%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%8B%E3%82%A2/60135/8 "2023-01-16T06:31:10Z")
Keeping you on your toes and keeping you feeling uncomfortable is a big part of its draw, yes. But while it’s not much of a puzzle (at least not in a “wow, I never expected _that_ person to be the murderer” kind of way), I don’t think it’s not emotionally impactful. I adored all the various points of view, how this one crime has affected so many people so differently, for so many years later. And I actually love the mundanity of the reasons behind it. It feels very real. Most real-world crimes have nothing to do with masterminds and genius detectives, they come from average people and little frustrations that build up, and while their origin may sound silly, their aftermath is anything but. ---
**Author:** ![miwuc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/miwuc/32/372791_2.png) [@miwuc](https://community.wanikani.com/u/miwuc)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 8:02am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/week-11-%E3%83%A6%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%8B%E3%82%A2/60135/9 "2023-01-16T08:02:25Z")
I agree with @omk3, I don’t think it’s necessarily a problem that “the obvious suspect did it”. This just isn’t that kind of book. On the contrary, the book has fun creating this mysterious eerie image of Hisako through the points of view of many characters, letting us speculate on her powers and motives… Until we finally meet her and she seems kinda normal? Like the interviewer, we can feel a bit disappointed. It’s not Hisako’s fault though that everybody makes her sound like so much more than she is. And as omk3 said it’s also a book about how mundane things can have a disproportionate impact on many people. ---
**Author:** ![pm215](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/pm215/32/510099_2.png) [@pm215](https://community.wanikani.com/u/pm215)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 9:14am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/week-11-%E3%83%A6%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%8B%E3%82%A2/60135/10 "2023-01-16T09:14:06Z")
> [@miwuc](#): > > On the contrary, the book has fun creating this mysterious eerie image of Hisako through the points of view of many characters, letting us speculate on her powers and motives… Until we finally meet her and she seems kinda normal? We kind of had an early echo of this too, with the description of how when the police announced that it was the delivery guy many people at the time felt somehow let down, like it ought to be more than that. ---
**Author:** ![NicoleIsEnough](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/nicoleisenough/32/87285_2.png) [@NicoleIsEnough](https://community.wanikani.com/u/NicoleIsEnough)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 9:22pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/week-11-%E3%83%A6%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%8B%E3%82%A2/60135/11 "2023-01-16T21:22:19Z")
> [@pocketcat](#): > > This would take the majority of my books on my shelf down to \<10 pages. You can’t have people _talk to each other_ otherwise from what conflict will you derive the plot?! Ahem. I have a lot of books that don’t have any conversation at all. The genre is called “non-fiction” and the plot is usually quite nice, really! 😜 ---
**Author:** ![pocketcat](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/pocketcat/32/422463_2.png) [@pocketcat](https://community.wanikani.com/u/pocketcat)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 9:25pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/week-11-%E3%83%A6%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%8B%E3%82%A2/60135/12 "2023-01-16T21:25:46Z")
> [@NicoleIsEnough](#): > > The genre is called “non-fiction” and the plot is usually quite nice, really! 😜 I need to get back to my Japanese nonfiction reading… 😅 It’s mostly what I read in English for years before picking up Japanese though! ---
**Author:** ![NicoleIsEnough](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/nicoleisenough/32/87285_2.png) [@NicoleIsEnough](https://community.wanikani.com/u/NicoleIsEnough)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 9:32pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/week-11-%E3%83%A6%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%8B%E3%82%A2/60135/13 "2023-01-16T21:32:44Z")
> **Off-topic non-fiction discussion** > > > [@pocketcat](#): > > > > I need to get back to my Japanese nonfiction reading… 😅 It’s mostly what I read in English for years before picking up Japanese though! > > Hm, I don’t think I ever tried that in Japanese, besides some schoolchildren’s history books and stuff. > But I recently bought a non-fiction book written by Murakami Haruki (!). It’s about a gas terror attack in the Tokyo tube some time ago, and I figured that his writing style is hopefully easy enough to turn this into an ok reading experience, and that there is a good chance that he wasn’t able to sneak any weird sex scenes into such a book 😳 > OTOH it’s comprised of interviews, so that doesn’t exactly sound like “no spoken language” 🤔 > Anyways, will report back when I get around to reading it. ---
**Author:** ![pm215](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/pm215/32/510099_2.png) [@pm215](https://community.wanikani.com/u/pm215)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 10:04pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/week-11-%E3%83%A6%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%83%8B%E3%82%A2/60135/14 "2023-01-16T22:04:03Z")
> **more off-topic nonfiction stuff** > > > [@pocketcat](#): > > > > I need to get back to my Japanese nonfiction reading… > > I was going to say I didn’t read much non-fiction, but counting up I have at least made it into double figures for non-fiction books in Japanese. Of those, 日本語が亡びるとき: 英語の世紀の中で I liked in an “interesting argument which made me think but which I ultimately disagree with” way – it’s by a Japanese novelist who spent much of her early life in the US and she brings that perspective to her views on the rise and fall of serious Japanese literature. And speaking of Murakami, 翻訳夜話 is a collection of discussions between him and somebody else about the pleasures and difficulties of translation (including a short story that they both translate separately so you can compare).