I read the chapter last week - couple paragraphs a day with intention to post questions this week. But now I am finding that re-reading text - almost as hard as reading it for the first time. This is because I remember only about 5% of new vocab, mostly kanji. Not even one of complex phrases stuck to my memory. I am questioning the whole benefit of the exercise.
I am certainly getting more skilled and better equipped for sentence mining and it is fun to be able to recognise kanji/grammar point learned somewhere else.
What is everybody’s expectation about retaining new material from reading only without Anki etc.?
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Personally I wouldn’t count on it happening all that quickly - you’ll get the most high frequency stuff relatively fast, but really a lot of things are only going to cement themselves after a lot of repetitions (and a lot more than you might otherwise need were you using an SRS system) and the trouble is that you can’t really tell how long it’s going to be before you see a word again. It’ll probably take a lot of reading for more than the highest frequency stuff to start sticking - it’s doable but there are better ways
One thing you can do if you don’t feel like you have enough vocabulary for full sentence mining yet is to just take single vocab items and make a card for them (perhaps including the sentence even if you don’t fully understand it yet) - alternatively you can look for example sentences containing the word through a variety of means (tatoeba is a useful website for this). Single vocab items make it much easier to pick up words from a text and gain more use out of it, but a downside is that you don’t see the use in context when you review. I don’t think this is too big a deal if you’re encountering it again in your reading anyway, plus you can always add a sentence card for that vocab later if you find a more appropriate example sentence
Reading a lot will do good, but I think really an SRS will help with retaining stuff long enough that you’ll remember it next time it comes up in your reading and that’s what will help truly cement it. Of course, this is all just my opinion, so feel free to do what you’d like - I’m no expert here
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Not worrying about anki…just strictly speaking this story is outright difficult! Not just because of the fancy literary writing, but the technical shogi speech as well. I am surprised to see quite a few N1 grammar points (they always pop up)…but just surprised how many I’ve seen for a BBC selection.
The benefit of the exercise is to learn Japanese and practice! That said…
I may end up dropping this one…I’m still working through but when the page count doubles, might drown…won’t be the first book club I will have walked away from and probably not the last. If something is too difficult (and it’s NOT fun)…then put it away and come back to it. When I first tried to read, found just about everything super difficult…
When I first started learning … went out and bought a bunch of stuff I wanted to read but no way on earth was going to get through it…so much depends on exposure to the language and grammar. It’s one thing to look up the words but w/o the grammar constructs then how they relate and everything it just is truly completely different than English…(as anyone will tell you - the first book you read in Japanese will be like hiking up an icy mountain…but when you finish it’s pretty great!)
If this one is too hard, take a look at the ABBC or other selections from this BBC. The current ABBC book is actually really good and I’m enjoying it, in that while I don’t know all the vocab I know enough its enjoyable. Also these book clubs stay around so you can always go back and pick up something that was read before and read it on your own, using the vocab lists and resources that are here.
I will say if I was level 19, there’s no way I’d continue to try this one… just my 2c
Thank you so much for explaining this a little better…all I’ve ever heard is shogi is like chess…but all this leads me to believe while it may be similar, it has some big differences.
Yup…very true…if there’s something you want to retain then add it to an anki deck or whatever and work on it…could even make good old flash cards if you wanted to. For me personally words that stick tend to jump out as rare or have some special meaning personally, otherwise just need to see it over and over and over and over again…languages take a lot of work!
If this book club is too hard but you are still interested in the story, then just go slower than everyone…there’s no harm in that and even if you end up a month behind, who cares…you are learning and moving forward. But if you are miserable and stressed and it feels like work…put it away and pick up a different BC… use one of the previous ones or jump into one of the on going ABBC or spin off clubs… からかう上手の高木さん is actually really entertaining and not breaking my brain if you want something that shouldn’t feel to painful. (if you are into that kind of story)…
For me…will see where I end up landing… still not finished with this story…(thinking about finishing this one and maybe the next)…but honestly will probably stop this if it continues as this is a bit much for me right now (already reading 4 other books - albeit slowly)
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I’m using Anki with single vocab flashcards but I’m trying to counter the downside you mention by always including the sentence I encountered the vocab in in my flashcards.
I wouldn’t stress out too much about there being N1 grammar points. The categorization by JLPT level is after all artificial and the language doesn’t care about it. I might be wrong but I believe N1 grammar is still mostly intelligible from the context unlike lower level grammar which could entirely prevent you from understanding what’s going on if you’re not familiar with it.
What bothers me so far about the stories is how peculiar they seem to be. I started to read the second one and it makes me wonder whether I would find fairytales like Hansel and Gretel for example weird if I weren’t exposed to them at a young age.
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I have to say that I was also having trouble rereading the first story because of all the unfamiliar vocabulary. I just started the second story and it seems a lot easier so far, so maybe there is some variation in the difficulty of these stories (it probably depends on the subject matter too). I do find that reading a lot helps you more easily recognise sentence structures so keeping at it has that benefit at least.
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I don’t stress but it’s a barometer for me…often find one here …having several pop up in this one and then when talking to the native speakers…even they were like this is a harder one 
seriously!!! read them now as an adult and go WTH are we reading to our kids…read an older printed one…they are dark and scary…gorey and sometimes very morbid…but they were meant to teach lessons to kids … looking back on them some of them are just peculiar is a polite way of putting it 
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That’s a fair point. I’m sure the stories being older plays into it.
Haha, glad I’m not the only one!
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I personally don’t use Anki or any other kind of SRS outside Wanikani. I have learned new words just from reading, but I know there are plenty of words that I keep looking up again and again - I’m sure they’ll stick eventually too, but they’re taking their time. Words that come up in very different context (different books, different media, etc) tend to stick better. I don’t worry too much about vocabulary at this point though, it’s easy enough to look up. It’s grammar that can make a sentence unintelligible, even when knowing all the words in it, so that’s my priority right now.
And speaking of grammar, out of interest, what specific N1 grammar points have you spotted in this story? My approach to grammar being quite haphazard (I just try and look up whatever I don’t understand), I often miss those.
I thought so too, although it does have its quirks. Added vocabulary for it to the vocab list, by the way. Not everything’s in there, but it’s a start.
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For the curious, my takeaway from reading それでも歩は寄せてくる is that the main difference include:
- Some pieces move differently compared with their chess counterparts.
- When your piece gets near the opponent’s side (last three rows), you can opt to upgrade it (flipping the piece over to reveal the upgraded rank), allowing it to move in more directions.
- Any piece you capture join your side. You can place (drop) one captured piece on the board (pretty much anywhere?) per turn. Dropping a piece means you cannot move that turn.
I’m unfamiliar with both chess and shogi, so I’m assuming that chess may have similar handicap rules of one side starting with fewer pieces. If not, then that would be another differencee.
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I’d have to go backwards… the only one I can think of off the top of my head is the でかなわない mentioned a while back (was coded as N1) in the link.
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trying to do a little at lunchtime on the tablet and didn’t see this one anywhere (unless the search on my tablet is failing me)…but depending on how this middle piece is read it seems like there is a subtle change in meaning
青年は、また勝ちみがあるのでうれしそうな顔つきをして、いっしょうけんめいに目を輝かしながら、相手の王さまを追っていました。
DeepL dumps out:
The young man was chasing after the other king, his eyes shining with excitement, happy because he had another chance to win.
But depends on how you parse かちみがある … If I replace that with the kanji: 勝ち味 (sign of victory [noun]) which makes sense DeepL spits out something slightly different:
The young man was chasing after the other king with a happy look on his face, his eyes shining with excitement, because he was going to win again.
another chance to win / going to win again are very different in meaning (at least they could be)…the first one implies a new game, while the 2nd one implies a game in progress…at least in English.
haven’t asked a native speaker yet but thought I’d throw this up there and see if I’m missing a grammar point somewhere? or something else… The subtle stuff is what kills me sometimes. 
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Chance to win/going to win both sound pretty close to me. Regardless, I may be missing something here, but what else could 勝ちみ be other than 勝ち味?
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A few thoughts on the 'other king' and 'another chance'.
If I remember correctly, in the prior line the old man remarks on having lost. Thus in this line, they would be playing another round, the young man looking to winning again (by checkmating the king).
“Other king” is a mistranslation (thanks DeepL!) of “opponent’s king”.
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Not unless you’re playing some sort of variant version.
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Yeah, I probably should have included the word variant. (I’m not familiar with all the lingo.) It wouldn’t be part of the “normal” rules.
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Whew!!! First attempt along the BBC!
It was quite, quite challenging mainly due to vocab and yet it was really a blast to be able to follow the story and also have fun with it. Can’t believe I did it. I’ll be forever grateful for this book club!!! (and also @NicoleIsEnough for sorting it all out!)
Looking forward for next week!!
(in the meanwhile I’ll ‘rest’ with レンタルお兄ちゃん’s 3rd booklet)
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As this first week draws to a close, I just wanted to say thank you all for responding to my questions and for sharing your own thoughts on the story. This is the first book club that I’m actively participating in and I really enjoyed this first week of discussions!
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The state of the game the young man is trying to win
I could be misremembering, but I don’t think this is a new game. I think the old man says that he’s pretty much lost, but the young man still has to seal the deal. (Fun for the young man, not so much for the old man.)
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I also wanted to say thank you, I did not introduce myself in the main thread and have been silently reading along. I was not sure I would be able to stick with the book club, but it has been wonderful so far 
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This is also my first time joining a wk reading group. I’ve really appreciated the responses to my questions, the discussion in general, and everyone’s generosity. It’s an amazing resource.
Thank you all!
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