Week 1: 乳と卵

[NicoleRauch]

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乳と卵 Home Thread

Week 1

Start Date: Sept 18th
Next Part: Week 2

Reading:

Week	Start Date	Chapter / End Phrase	End Page	Kindle LOC	Kindle %	Page Count
Week 1	Sept 18th	さてしかしこれがさっぱり思い出せない。	44			36

Discussion Rules

• Please use spoiler tags for major events in the current chapter(s) and any content in future chapters.
• When asking for help, please mention the chapter and page number. Also mention what version of the book you are reading.
• Don’t be afraid of asking questions, even if they seem embarrassing at first. All of us are here to learn.
• To you lurkers out there: Join the conversation, it’s fun!

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[Redglare]

What kind of mirrors do they have in Japan???

[rodan]

Perhaps it means the bronze kind （銅鏡)?
In older contexts (and older mirrors…) I’ve seen 鏡 mean that a lot (for example, one of the three sacred treasures is one of these), and as far as I know they’re always a round disc shape.

You can kinda see the resemblance… (I guess)

(the wikipedia page for the mochi suggests I’m on the right track)

[Redglare]

One sentence be like

Had to turn to the next page to capture the last two lines.

[Shandapanda]

I have only met long sentences in 森見登美彦 's stuff Nice for reading practice

[rodan]

I like the long sentences! The writing style reminds me a bit of Virginia Woolf, the way it sort of tends to drift across topics on clauses…
I’m finding the dialect the more difficult part but it’s good practice at least!

One small thing I thought was neat at the very beginning was how the hyper-focusing on the physical changes and describing them like, almost geometrically before we really know what’s going on means we start out on a strange and almost eerie note with the two characters that I think matches well the distance the narrator feels, when you could describe what happens in a much less interesting way just as “I met my sister and niece at the train station and my, how she’d grown!”

[Jfredel78]

It’s the one on the bottom. A common fixture in Japan around New Year’s.

[rodan]

oh yeah, I was just trying to clarify what about them was “mirror-shaped”

[Jfredel78]

Oh…

I always thought it was because it’s a symmetrical design, but you might be on to something with the discs.

[Jfredel78]

Interesting that we went from one book with long run-on sentences (人間失格) to another.

[Redglare]

@rodan

One small thing I thought was neat at the very beginning was how the hyper-focusing on the physical changes and describing them like, almost geometrically before we really know what’s going on means we start out on a strange and almost eerie note with the two characters that I think matches well the distance the narrator feels, when you could describe what happens in a much less interesting way just as “I met my sister and niece at the train station and my, how she’d grown!”

The description of a leg be like:

[Belerith]

I read the first 10 percent and decided I needed a break. I’m glad I could actually read all the comments so far already.

The switch between 緑子’s notes and the narration is pretty interesting so far. I especially appreciate that the nature of writing means there’s lots of periods in the notes.

I’ve a few comments and questions.

comment at 1%

Right at the start, there’s a part that goes 「…学校のことは勝手に過ぎていくことやからいいけれど…」. It took way too long for me to order that last bit. It didn’t help that the いい was split across two lines.

question at 2%

In the part describing the niece’s appearance, is 股ぐり supposed to be 股ぐら?
Also I think 健康美人 is a great expression.

question at 5%

「…多分、なんやかやであって、…」that’s なんやかんや, right?

I love how 竜巻 turned into a verb here and 巻子 can 竜巻いて like that.

A bit later, there’s 「…困ってはおるけど、そやからあたしも、まあ、…」. I’m a bit confused about the そやから. Is it just だから? I’m a bit hung up on the そ.

Did you want to fill in the missing info in the table for kindle loc and %, @NicoleRauch ? This week ends at 29% and loc 381 for me.

[rodan]

@Belerith

I’m a bit confused about the そやから. Is it just だから? I’m a bit hung up on the そ.

I think so - I was coincidentally playing a video game last night with multiple characters with Kansai accents who said そやけど a bunch of times where だけど would make sense (or maybe it was せやけど? Same difference, surely?). Also, I found it in Weblio. (Outside of set phrases the そ might be a shortened そう and I assume that’s where it comes from but it wouldn’t really change the meaning for these anyway)

@Belerith

In the part describing the niece’s appearance, is 股ぐり supposed to be 股ぐら?

I’m not sure, but it seems like it’s an area or measurement in pants construction:

The google results for it are all pants-related, vs. 股ぐら which are not, so maybe the distinction makes it clearer is the narrator is looking at the crotch of her pants for like, their geometry rather than their contents?

[Belerith]

My brain is fried (I hope there’s a semblance of order in this post. ). I think this time I’ll attempt some question solving of my own before I ask here. Thanks for that, @rodan. Especially that diagram is really nice.

I feel like I’m slowly (very slowly, considering we’re almost a third into the book) getting used to the train of thought style, but not so much the 弁 yet. That will take some intensive googling.

Both combined are somehow really exhausting to read.

I logged my reading times, so here's numbers:

I logged my times, and so far I spent 2 hrs and 2 minutes reading this book, which apparently means I read a page in about 3 minutes. That’s the slowest among the books I’m reading right now (except for maybe 人間失格, since the free version has inflated page numbers).

For comparison, キノの旅 and the 小川未明 stories (which are admittedly less dense, probably? Hard to tell with ebooks) take less than 1,5 minutes/page, and rezero takes about 2,5 minutes/page.

Content wise, I liked these quotes enough to highlight them:

だいたい本に書かれてる生理はなんかいい感じに書かれすぎてるような気がします。これはこれを読んだ人に、こう思いなさいよってことのような気がする。 (halfway through I believe)

その胸が大きくなればいいなあっていうあなたの素朴な価値観がそもそも世界にはびこるそれはもうわたしたちが物を考えるための前提であるといってもいいくらいの男性的精神を経由した産物でしかないのよね、じっさい、あなたは気がついていないだけで (close to the end)

I also liked how the other girl answered to this, though.

We knew a bit of what to expect going in, but I think I’m actually getting a feel for the tone and theme of the book now.

[miwuc]

Finished this week’s reading just in the nick of time :o It is indeed pretty difficult and the going is slow, but I like the book so far. The style is interesting (although someone ought to tell the author about periods and quotation marks), and I like the topic. Totes agree with 緑子 that periods are the worst thing ever.

[Shigurette]

So far I’ve found it a bit jarring going from 人間失格 to this. I guess it’s mostly due to my inexperience with 関西弁. Up to this point my brain has been programmed entirely in 標準語 so I’m experiencing some dissonance when reading this novel. But, I think this will be a good reading challenge and by the end of it I think I’ll have a much better grasp of 関西弁.