Has to be rare for learners to get as good at remembering the reading for 煙管 as us, haha. I don’t think I had even seen it before this VN.
The Definition of a Witch
I feel like I don’t have too much to add in insight, but I’m enjoying where this chapter goes. It’s a big swing that the overall story has taken from the initial setup of the murders, into making the meta layer game more important, to now working off Beatrice’s character in this way where the game is secondary to her and Battler’s relationship.
The George stuff, besides showing a way someone becomes like Kinzo, feels like it mostly reaffirms what we’ve been talking about with magic and belief previously. The little bob their sprites do to indicate flight is cute, haha.
Ultimately if I was following the point of the earlier discussions correctly the lives are like the broken pot, right? Even if Shannon is coming back it won’t be for long before she… breaks again . In my previous read of half of this in English years ago I went to a little ways into episode 5 but I genuinely don’t recall where Ch 3 is going anymore at this point, most of my clear memories of it were the earlier events surrounding finding the gold and Eva Beatrice, so I’m genuinely not sure! Well I remember one more thing late in the episode but it’s more on the meta layer.
Ok I once again piled a bunch of reading together in the readathon, did 61k characters to finish the chapter and the first tea party.
Chapter 3 ending
Well, that event at the end really dominates how I can talk about anything that happened previously. I will say the VN was pretty touching at times, like the description of Shannon returning from the land of the dead – it’s like what I was saying before, ryukishi is willing to go FAR into cheese and I think doing that he hits on some really poignant moments.
I am at a loss for how to explain the red truths that Beatrice has to take the nuclear option to. The thing about Kyrie having another motive was SUPER obvious because I was thinking the food thing was way too suspicious even before getting to them bringing it up, but that final assault seems pretty airtight. I’m missing where the trick is.
But anyway, the big thing is that Beatrice’s whole turn around to becoming a true witch who understands the value of 有限, of life itself, and nicely grants people’s desires is fake…maybe? I’m leaning towards there being more truth to all that than she lets on and the game ulterior motive being a sort of kayfabe to keep the game with Battler going as is. Her and Virgilia do drop the act and make the trick obvious BEFORE the new character appears (is it obvious who it is? I can’t un-know now so I wonder). I definitely think the stuff about Beatrice wanting Battler to find the real truth on his own is legitimately real, if nothing else. Like her game is probably more about that than anything else?
So… Eva did it, I guess. This time only? It’s weird how obvious she is as the culprit, though we still don’t know how she could have done, if nothing else, the Nanjo murder. It also really makes me wonder why Hideyoshi actually died if he truly was being an accomplice in some way. Perhaps he knew he was an accomplice to her sneaking out for SOMETHING (gold-related?) but then discovered she was the murderer? I’m so sold on their relationship it’s hard for me to think of her actually killing him honestly. To say nothing of George being killed, too… 全然駄目だぜ。
I went past the numbers a bit quickly because I was doing the readathon as fast as possible, but I have no idea as of now. I’ll have to look back and think about them a bit more. Got a screenshot to reference:
Most of this is the witches teasing each other over the identity of the girl, and we get the psychotic yuri vibes here out of Lambda, haha.
The stuff about her allowing Beatrice to be a witch and being the real force behind this game is quite interesting, though I’m not sure I have much more to say other than “wow that sure sounds important!” The reality of Beatrice’s existence and role has become perhaps the slipperiest part of this whole story.
Oh and I was so happy they brought up the えば thing like in 死んじゃえば, I had thought to myself she says her name all the time but I thought that was a really dumb joke. Funny to see it called out.
Right, I should share my (spoiler) impressions of this chapter too
I remember liking 3 in the past, and I quite enjoyed it again this time. It feels like the chapter is doing a lot to help us understand how the VN’s world operates: here’s how you should think about magic, here’s how you need to skeptical of events as presented, here are hints to the riddle, etc. All the same, I come out of it feeling like despite all I learned and got better equipped to tackle this, I’m more confused than ever. Which I think is good, especially for the stage we’re at. The final murder is pretty baffling, and we’re so in the dark about what’s real and what isn’t about Beatrice.
I like basically all the character additions. Eva-Beatrice is fun to watch as someone totally drunk on magic power, and having a person actually solve the riddle so early is a big shock. Ronove’s personality is great and he feels like core cast already, though it is hard to know how much “real” Ronove we see and how much is all part of a grand play. That goes doubly for Virgilia, maybe the most confusing character we have. She’s decent but I have no idea what to think about who she really is and what’s true or not about her. I even like the two rabbit sisters – they’re pushing it on this game’s ridiculousness but I dunno, something about them amuses me. Their blocks of kanji were annoying stumbling points when I tried to read as quickly as possible through the readathon, but I forgive them, haha.
Perhaps some of the action stuff goes a little long for me, but I am used to ryukishi indulging himself in those scenes. He’s worse about it in Higurashi, which I still love dearly, haha.
Of course this also sets up a very strong hook for the next episode, which is our final question arc! Exciting.
And, finally, I will be waiting for you to catch up (I need to read the ??? epilogue anyway still), but I went ahead and made the episode 4 thread while it’s on my mind
oh man, we’re at the end of EP3? I had a super-convoluted system set up, like, a decade ago to play original PC graphics with voice acting, gonna have to see if I can get that back up despite being on a different computer and OS…
EP3
The Sun and the North Wind, amirite? As I said in an earlier post, I still have no idea if everything with Beato (and her beef with Evatrice) was real, or if even that was nothing more than a ploy to get Battler to acknowledge her as a witch (as he almost did).
Alright, I took very, very good notes on all 3 EPs so far. (I did it in Excel, so I easily see that have 500+ individuals notes per EP lol.) I also went very deep into theorycrafting for the first 2 EPs. I never got around to it for EP3 cuz there was a fair amount where there just didn’t seem to be much wiggle room…
I did remember that the “web of reds” at the end had a trivial loophole. Specifically, the culprit just had to commit suicide after killing Nanjo. Then you can give the “These 15 are dead” and “Jessica, Battler, and Eva are inno” reds no problem.
The way I would like the story to be crafted would be for the fantasy to cover the truth of reality. We know (as much as we can know anything in this game) that there was a real Beatrice in a second hidden mansion who died. Kumasawa turns into Virgilia, who is Beatrice’s teacher. So I think that Kumasawa was also the real Beatrice’s mentor (possibly mother?). Dunno how that fits into the motives and background and whatnot but just a thought that I had.
Also, looking back at my notes, my most-hated scene (from a trying-to-solve-the-mystery perspective) was actually in EP2. (It’s the scene where “Kanon”(?) shows up at the servant’s room and kills everyone.)
I had kind of an interesting experience playing this where I happened to stop playing right after George and Beato revived Shannon, and then I came back a day later to continue it, and literally like the very next line, George and Shannon both died, lol. So I spent a whole day wondering about how that revival was going to change things only for them to immediately die in the story.
Kinda funny how time works.
This was an interesting chapter because Beato seemed to genuinely have a revelation about the true nature of magic here and she seemed probably the most human we have ever seen her. I’m really looking forward to the mind palace version of Battler meeting her again now. For the first time, I was rooting for her to get away, haha. It was sweet of Virgilia to sacrifice herself for Beato, though I admit I don’t really understand how that was able to happen if Virgilia died already this chapter?? Oh well.
Krauss and Natsuhi got got, too. With only 4 people left, aren’t we already over the number of sacrifices required? Eva Beatrice certainly seems to love a good bloodbath, though, so maybe she’ll take out the rest just for the fun of it.
Also, Nanjo randomly seeming to catch on to Beato’s motivation surprised me a bit. As soon as Battler started talking about the windows, Nanjo seemed suspicious to me, to be honest… We technically saw onscreen how George left and how the others got murdered, so it feels strange to doubt that, but I dunno. In the spirit of the game and all…
Wow, long final chapter, haha. But I finished it! All that’s left now are the extras, which I’ll save for another time.
18:03 The Witch’s Courtroom
Ok, we have a number written on the door in the blood-like red paint: 07151129. Actually, reading a little more, it sounds like this one might be written in actual blood… Battler thinks it’s a date because his birthday just so happens to be July 15. Does that leave 1129 as the year?? I looked up the year on wikipedia just for fun, and nothing immediately leapt out at me… I suppose it could also be a time as well? Just as I was thinking that, Battler decided it’s another date: November 29.
Wait, hang on, Battler says: “……１１月２９日が、誰かの誕生日だったりとかするのか？うちの家族は違うぜ、親父も霧江さんも縁寿も違う。もちろん俺のお袋もだ.” Who is 縁寿??
I got so distracted by the number, I totally forgot they were there to find George’s body…
The characters list says: “In exchange for his soul, the witch granted an 8-digit number. 07151129. When spoken, a small Golden Land will be opened.”
???
I still haven’t given up entirely on my sweetfish mackerel theory, so I’m noting for the record that the mackerel came up again in this episode with Battler thinking back on yesterday’s lunch and saying that it would’ve been funny if Kumasawa had put grilled mackerel in the cookies she’d baked.
Alright, 縁寿 comes up again: she’s Rudolph and Kirie’s daughter. 6 years old, apparently. Am I crazy, or has this character’s existence never been mentioned before??
Also, it’s kind of strange to me that the guesthouse’s doors and windows can’t be locked from the outside. Isn’t that counterintuitive for a building? I suppose they are on a private island, so maybe they don’t care about being able to lock up when no one’s in there, but considering how paranoid the characters are about checking the locks in the main house, it seems strange that they’d willingly leave the guesthouse unlocked all the time.
It’s kind of ironic that Jessica is so convinced that Eva killed her parents, lol. Well I mean…
Also wow that gunshot startled me, hahaha. I also love the way that Eva Beatrice appeared very suddenly right after Nanjo opened the door. Those are fun things a VN can do that a regular novel (or manga, for that matter) can’t do.
That was a sweet gesture that Beato did for Jessica and Kanon, though I did kind of start getting bored of the heterosexual lovey-dovey stuff in the scene that followed lol.
Loved the scene with Beato enduring all the attacks. That was really moving. And then Battler uniting with her was super cool. It felt really satisfying.
Okay, I’m a bit confused here. Eva Beatrice said in red: “人間以外の生命は一切、このゲームに関係がない。” If they’re saying that no lifeforms other than humans have any connection to this game, then doesn’t that… exclude witches?? I guess they’re sometimes unclear with the language. Maybe it’s a distinction between 人間 and ニンゲン? Eva Beatrice said she wasn’t a ニンゲン, but I guess that doesn’t necessarily preclude her from being a 人間.
Cool moment of trust between Beato and Battler with Battler covering his ears so that he wouldn’t hear Beato deny her own existence in red.
In the so-called Golden Land, I did not like the part where Rudolph and Kirie implied that Rudolph would seduce any woman Battler brought home . Just a gross, unnecessary thing to say.
As soon as they brought out the contract, I started getting suspicious, and sure enough…
Cool dramatic moment where Virgilia’s eyes opened there at the very end for the first time (the art does such a good job of being very unsettling in this VN), and they are also blue! I’m probably fixating on totally useless information whenever I mention that, lol, but I’ve been waiting this whole VN to see her eyes, ever since noticing that Eva Beatrice’s are blue.
And we have a new character!
The random woman that showed up at the end has the same hair color as Battler and also blue eyes (like his), so I’m going to randomly guess that she’s his (twin?) sister or something? Maybe Kirie’s kid actually survived?
Wait, hang on, in the end credits, I saw a new name in there: Ushiromiya Ange. I’m guessing that’s the romanization for 縁寿? But wait, she’s supposed to be 6 years old, right? So that can’t be the woman who showed up unless there’s something weird going on here (which I will never rule out, lol). I suppose if a younger version of Eva can be another character in this, an older version of Ange could also be a character? Sure, why not.
I also laughed at “All the goats” in the credits. Just an extremely funny way to phrase that. Shout out to all the goats!
Yeah, I also struggled… I paused for a bit to try to think about it and look for any holes in the wording. My best idea was that one of the dead people was actually not dead yet at the time of killing Nanjo, but was dead before Nanjo was dead. But I dunno. I gave up on trying to figure that one out for now.
Yeah, I also think there’s more truth to all of that than she lets on because if magic works based on belief, then Beato herself has to on some level believe in the power of love and all of that mushy stuff in order to pull off the things that she did. I think genuinely her main motivation above all else is the game with Battler, and wanting to get a fully satisfying win out of it, and I think in order to do that, she’s willing to do just about anything, including change her own nature if that’s what it takes.
Actually, if there’s a reason to doubt the whole thing being a trick that Beato pulled, it’s that I don’t think she’d want to have Battler acknowledge her as a witch by tricking him into signing a piece of paper. That voids the whole chess game, does it not? Why go through all the trouble of risking her own existence like that in order to prevent him from acknowledging magic against Eva Beatrice only to pull a super cheap trick of her own that would also unceremoniously end the game? I think she did what she felt she had to do to keep the game going.
To use a wrestling analogy, she made herself the heel so that Battler would continue to fight her as an opponent.
Yeah, it was so obvious that she did it, it makes me inclined to suspect that it wasn’t all her somehow… Maybe not the first set of murders, at least? Since she hadn’t solved the epitaph at the time. Not sure about Nanjo, either. The logic seems to pretty much totally rule her out as a possibility for that one. And we didn’t technically see the Hideyoshi murder onscreen, if I recall correctly, which makes me suspicious of that, too. He’s so suspicious this whole episode…
Though honestly, my first thought with the cigarettes is that that would be a profoundly easy object for Eva Beatrice to plant in order to coax several people to leave the guesthouse, therefore setting up the opportunity for the next sacrifices. So maybe it wasn’t even his cigarette butt in the first place.
I’ll type up another post after I’ve finished all the extras with my full thoughts on the “whodunit” aspect of this episode.
Oh I didn’t catch that! Thanks. That door was where George and Shannon were right? I guess their meeting “place” was a Golden Land? Feels like there’s a clue there.
The first time I read this I had the same exact reaction! Thought she came out of nowhere. This time through, because it would catch my eye more, I can say there IS a reference or two to her. I can’t say for sure if it was all the way back in episode 1 or what but there is a brief mention or two to Battler having a sister and her not coming here. It’s quick and not much attention is drawn to it.
. In my previous read of half of this in English years ago I went to a little ways into episode 5 but I genuinely don’t recall where Ch 3 is going anymore at this point, most of my clear memories of it were the earlier events surrounding finding the gold and Eva Beatrice, so I’m genuinely not sure! Well I remember one more thing late in the episode but it’s more on the meta layer.
. Just a gross, unnecessary thing to say.