Yes! They are super helpful if you don’t feel like making your own decks.
My routine is all over the place right now, and I want to fix that, but I don’t know how. Part of my problem is that my foundation is shaky so I have been working on Genki along with Tobira. Just trying to do too many things at once I guess. I’m also working on Tobira with my iTalki teacher, and with her I’m about to start chapter 4, while I’m about to start chapter 7 here. I guess what I should do is to work through the chapter once here and then repeat it with my teacher later. I should also add a couple of grammar points from Tobira to Bunpro every day. That should help.
Thanks for your answers, all of you, you have given me some food for thought!
Oh wow, cool. I didn’t think that they had made the effort to prepare something like that for students. Good on them! I have a tendency to avoid flashcards though (I find committing to SRS time-consuming and troublesome, even though I know it works), so I probably won’t use them. My preference is just to make an effort to remember while learning what a word means and how to use it (e.g. by looking at examples). My objective is to understand why it means what it does and the words used. Afterwards, whether I remember it or not depends on whether or not I use the word. I mean, I remember the gist of this proverb about not speaking too soon/on shaky grounds (‘Saying, “Because one swallow has come”, it does not become summer.’), but the reason I always need to look up the exact wording of ツバメが一匹来たからと言って、夏にはならない。is that I never ever have to use it. I imagine it would be the same thing even if I had memorised it with flashcards.
I still do Genki 2 textbook exercises (amongst other things) with my partner and our tutor – I skipped all of them when I read ahead, and our tutor goes into more detail with examples, nuances and speaking practice anyway, so I’m still learning!
Sounds like you’re doing a lot, but I guess once you figure out your ideal routine, everything should fit into place a bit better alongside your other commitments!
Hi again, just wanted to add something, even though it’s not really relevant to what @Marifly asked. It’s a thought that popped into my head while watching an ad for a language learning app (from Fluent Forever), and it’s something that matched my personal experience: whenever I learn a new language/study new words, I try to stop using translations ASAP. It doesn’t matter if I have no choice but to use a translation to pick a new word up, coz sometimes the monolingual definitions are just too hard. However, I try to attach that word to its meaning and usage in the target language (Japanese) as quickly as I can, so that I no longer need to use a translation as a crutch (this is another reason I don’t use flashcards – I don’t memorise translations).
Here’s an example you’ll see in Chapter 8: 掛け軸. It means ‘hanging scroll’. If you know what each component means though, you can drop the translation entirely and replace it with a mental image. No need to think in English anymore, and no need for flashcards if you already know 掛け and 軸.
Ultimately, we should all use whatever works best for each of us, but there’s going to be a point when we want to be able to think and process things directly in Japanese, and I believe this is the first step.
(PS: I have this personal theory about language being processed fundamentally as some sort of mental language that’s based on emotions and impressions, since that’s how we intuitively understand what something means in our first language, so I make an effort to ‘translate’ every language I learn into that sort of abstraction so I can cut out translations ASAP. It’s also the reason I often seek to summarise multiple definitions of a particular word in a single ‘gist’. Again, not imposing this on anyone, but you might want to try this with Tobira, esp coz studying it means you probably have enough Japanese knowledge to start explaining some things to yourself directly in Japanese.)
It sounds like you’re doing the best thing.
Also depending on your learning style you might like to just practise translating or try something like I do: just get on with it and read through once without worrying about checking the dictionary then re-read again and check up words you don’t know (write them down in a book or underline with a pencil in the book). For me it keeps my motivation up as I’m not going too slow and I love my “ah I get it now!” feeling. I also always highly recommend reading the text aloud though you’ll be already doing that with your tutor so you might not need to but the pre tutoring practise might give you more confidence!
The chapter 8 thread is up!
I have also posted a schedule for the last 5 chapters. We’ll be done with Tobira just in time for Christmas!
Chapter 9: August 24 to September 6
Chapter 10: September 7 to September 20
BREAK AND CATCH UP: September 21 to October 4
Chapter 11: October 5 to October 18
Chapter 12: October 19 to November 1
Chapter 13: November 2 to November 15
Chapter 14: November 16 to November 29
Chapter 15: November 30 to December 13
The chapter 9 thread is up! Tobira study group - chapter 9
I see that many of you click: “I’ll study chapter x later” in the polls in the beginning of each chapter. Please feel free to post in the previous weeks’ threads too! I plan to go through the book again slowly later, and I hope the threads stay open and active as a resource for a long time!
Thanks to the infinite generosity of @skymaiden I’m now in posession of Tobira again!! I’m definitely too late to catch up, but I’ll use the previous threads for info and maybe questions
The threads are always there, so you can use them any time! We’ll start chapter 10 next week and then we’ll take 2 weeks break, so it will be 4 weeks until we’ll start chapter 11. Just do what you can and want and post in the threads for the previous chapters! I’m slowly going through the book with my iTalki teacher and I’ll start chapter 5 with her soon. I’ll use the chapter 5 thread for sure!
Back in the Tobira club!
(I think you’re at the same point as us grammar-wise, I saw your September Bunpro goal on the study log)
Don’t hesitate to ping us if no one sees your messages (I don’t get notifications on all threads)! I received some great help in some of the threads for previous chapters thanks to helpful people
I’m usually lurking somewhere on the forums, so I’ll probably be there to answer questions. (I typically only check the current chapter thread though.) However, uni has restarted for me, and it’s intense, so I’m not sure I’ll still be around as often. I might even lose my ‘lead’ on the group because I don’t think I’ll be able to start on Chapter 10 even though I was on Chapter 9 about a month ago. Might have to shelve Japanese for a bit, random chats with my friend aside. Still, I’ll see everyone around when I can.
The chapter 10 thread is up!
We’ll spend 2 weeks on chapter 10, and then we’ll have a break for 2 weeks before starting the last 5 chapters. I know I need some time to catch up at least!
As planned, the next two weeks are for:
BREAK AND CATCH UP: September 21 to October 4
How are you doing? Are you up to date? I know I need these two weeks to catch up! Please use the threads for the previous weeks to ask questions and post comments. We’ll start chapter 11 in two weeks!
I’ve finished chapter 10 in time but planning on reviewing all the previous chapters during the break. It feel great knowing we’ll be finished soon in December!
Hi everyone! I’m soon starting on Tobira. Do you have some tips for a novice? What is your routine? Do you go through supplementary material on the website etc.?
I also need to start working through the Tobira book but my japanese is still too poor.
You probably know more about self-studying textbooks than I do, you powered through Genki!
I imagine that your techniques/routine for Genki can apply to Tobira too – the main difference is that more of the book is actually in Japanese, and grammar explanations are concise (but they’re usually clear enough and have examples).
I usually just read one “thing” per day (pre-reading/main reading/dialog/other) and go through one grammar point before adding it Bunpro. I watch the videos when I remember too
I don’t do the textbook exercises, I just can’t make myself do them. I’m relying on lots of Bunpro repetitions for drilling, and lots of book club reading.
I haven’t needed to pre-study Tobira-specific vocab so far (I just look up stuff if I need to), but they do provide Anki decks so you might find that helpful!
For me I ~
- Read texts - use a pencil to underline words don’t know and draw a box around grammar I don’t know. I’ll also underline anything I’m not 100% confident on. Key for me is to read relaxed - not to worry about what something means!
- Listen to audio while following along while reading. Listen and read through Vocab list. Watch videos.
- Use their anki deck.
- After 2 weeks of anki’ing I read the main text again out loud then leave it as done! I normally find I’m so much better after this ~ if needed I would always go through it again but after a much later time as I find it sticks in my head a lot better after a break from it. I also rewatch the video.
Same as Skymaiden I do use bunpro and I avoid the exercises.
I will start learning with tobira soon. Sadly a little late for the study group. I was wondering… has anyone of you already looked up the wanikanilevel you need to read like 90%-95% of the kanji that tobira will teach you (not the ones before you start) ?
I would like not learning too many kanjis outside of the wanikani system…
At WK level 20, you can read about 50% of the kanji in Tobira. At level 30, you can read almost 85%. At level 52, you have covered all of Tobira’s kanji.