The quick or short Language Questions Thread (not grammar)

Weird; I tried, but got none :smile:. I might be wrong, then.

edit: 「ませんので」の用例・例文集 - 用例.jp and "ませんので" at DuckDuckGo

Just as an example, from goiryoku.com (so a site dedicated to natives learning to speak better Japanese)

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:+1:

From my impressions, it would probably still classify as 尊敬語?

Using ~ませんので? Unless the word used was 尊敬語, it would just be 丁寧語. Unless I’m not understanding the question.

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Yeah. Because it feels like it’s mostly used when there is a clear hierarchy or extra level of politeness.

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Yeah, I mean, if you are talking to someone above you in level, you should definitely use 丁寧語. It’s just that things which are 尊敬語 have the effect of raising the level of the person they target relative to the speaker, and ます and its conjugations don’t do that, they just express politeness.

Okay, maybe I worded that poorly. That much is obvious, but feels like the context it is used is surrounded in extra politeness. Even if that word itself is not Sonkeigo.

I mean that ませんので and ますので feel like a step up from just normal Teineigo. Maybe not Sonkeigo level, but it would definitely be weird saying that to a coworker you normally use masu-form with, right? Like you normally hear it in train stations etc.

It doesn’t seem particularly weird to my ear, but it’s true that a mid-sentence plain verb isn’t rude or anything.

Like, our Japanese teachers went as far as to even mark ます before ので as incorrect, whatever the reason was. But all these things combined make me suspicious :smile:. And the fact that I don’t really hear it often, either. Thanks for the insight.

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Hmm, haven’t heard that. I know some sticklers think ので after です is incorrect (I believe because で in ので is the copula, て form of だ, so it’s like you’re doubling a copula). Just [noun]なので would be correct in that line of thought.

I just asked my Japanese teacher this week if I could use ますように in normal sentences and not when I’m writing down a wish or something like that. She told me that it’s possible but that I then would have to use ます consequently, for example before ので as well.

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While we’re at the ように used to make a wish at the end of the sentence - can it be used with plain form of the verb, or does it have to be ますように?

For example - I’m currently waiting for a pretty important CD to arrive from Japan. Whan making a wish that it doesn’t get lost on the way, can I say/write
“無事に届くように”?

If you’re expressing a wish, it has to be with ます.

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Thanks :slight_smile:
Out of curiosity - how bad/off it sounds with plain form, and what kind of misunderstandings could it invite? (Apart from the obvious バカ外人? :wink: )

It will be interpreted as the "in order to” version of ように, leaving the other person thinking, “and…?” as they wait for the second half of the sentence.

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I see. I’ve been under wrong impression that just putting ように at the end indicates making a wish. Good that I asked, thanks again for clearing up my misunderstanding :slight_smile:

And, on a side note, it’s another argument against using MTL to check your own sentences - deepl translates standalone 無事に届くように into “I hope it arrives safely.” not caring about ます being there or not at all :wink:

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Deepl was nice enough to fix your typo :stuck_out_tongue:

But yes, deepl will try very hard to produce a nice english sentence, even if you input any kind of random string.

あいおうああゆおういう = “be in awe of each other” according to deepl. Well, I’m in awe for sure !

Also, just in case, “I hope it arrives safely” is correct but can be a little misleading because ますように is really wish-making, like seeing a shouting star and making a wish or going to a temple and making a wish while praying.

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Aye, as I’ve mentioned before, Deepl likes to favour a smooth translation over an accurate one. It covers over a multitude of sins, sure, but as a tool to check whether you’ve written proper Japanese, it doesn’t work so great.

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The original example had ます in the middle of a sentence, and I wasn’t sure whether it was a mistake or intentional so I just offered a more polite version in case that’s what they wanted.

Also as Leebo already mentioned, there’s nothing wrong or weird about using ので after ます or ません. It might be “too polite” to the point of being awkward at worst.

Yeah, that was basically it :+1: . I guess without knowing context it’s not too big of a deal here.