The quick or short Language Questions Thread (not grammar)

Isn’t it the right half, though?

The ヶ has a gentle leftward curve to it, reminiscent of when straight lines get moved to different areas of a kanji. It doesn’t have a hook like the right side of 竹.

辛 > 辣
半 > 叛 for examples of other straight lines getting curved, though the process is the opposite I guess.

3 Likes

Yes, and that’s what the right half of the top radical does as well, I think?

image

The left half’s bottom line goes to the right but the right half’s bottom line goes to the left, like ヶ.

That depends on the font and the way the person is writing it, but I don’t think it’s that important which it is. It’s an abbreviation of that radical.

It can look like this as well.

In any case, I thought you were saying it’s the right side of the full 竹 kanji.

1 Like

Oh, I see! I know that fonts can look vastly different but I did not know that there are officially different ways of writing the same kanji/radical. Thanks for pointing this out!

I believe that if you look up the document implementing/discussing the implementation of the jōyō kanji, you’ll notice that there’s a section stating that certain alternative forms should also be accepted. It’s not very clear on what’s not acceptable though. My memories may be inaccurate though, because I read that document very shortly after starting Japanese (maybe within the first 6 months?), so my reading comprehension probably wasn’t as good back then.

For the 竹 radical specifically, I don’t know if what you got from Jisho is the form taught in schools (Kanjipedia gives the form Leebo posted if you search 篭, for instance), but my experience with Chinese calligraphy tells me that the Jisho version is closer to the 行書 form:
image
(It’s more efficient to connect to the next stroke of the kanji this way, because the next stroke usually starts somewhere on the left.)

Just to add some more data points to the discussion:

This is taken from a Kanji Kentei practice book:

Also, I‘m using a font called YuKyokasho for my writing studies, which basically adds stroke numbers to the standard Kyokasho font. This Kyokasho font is described on Microsoft‘s font page as follows:
„The design of the font adheres to the Japan’s Government requirements to eliminate discrimination against people with disabilities (effective since 2016). It also conforms to the educational curriculum guidelines. The font maintains the directionality of handwriting, and the shapes of tear drops and sweeps, by carefully controlling the weight of the strokes, while also employing designs that address the concerns of low vision and dyslexia.“

In that font the radical is shown with the same shape:

image

2 Likes

If it’s from Kanken, then I guess I have to accept it as being considered correct. I’m somewhat surprised: I didn’t know that this alternative form existed in Japan. However, well, it could also be a matter of handwriting versus printed kanji. Like I said, the form on Kanjipedia is different, and I find that Kanjipedia usually shows me the standard Japanese font for kanji that normally get displayed in their Chinese form in other contexts on my computer. Also, well… here’s the link to the Jōyō Kanji PDF from the Ministry of Culture: https://www.bunka.go.jp/kokugo_nihongo/sisaku/joho/joho/kijun/naikaku/pdf/joyokanjihyo_20101130.pdf
The relevant section (第2 明朝体と筆写の楷書との関係について=2. On the relationship between the Ming Dynasty script and handwritten standard script) has this to say:

常用漢字表では,個々の漢字の字体(文字の骨組み)を,明朝体のうちの一種を例に 用いて示した。このことは,これによって筆写の楷書における書き方の習慣を改めよう とするものではない。字体としては同じであっても,1,2に示すように明朝体の字形 と筆写の楷書の字形との間には,いろいろな点で違いがある。それらは,印刷文字と手 書き文字におけるそれぞれの習慣の相違に基づく表現の差と見るべきものである。

さらに,印刷文字と手書き文字におけるそれぞれの習慣の相違に基づく表現の差は, 3に示すように,字体(文字の骨組み)の違いに及ぶ場合もある。 以下に,分類して,それぞれの例を示す。いずれも「明朝体―手書き(筆写の楷書)」 という形で,左側に明朝体,右側にそれを手書きした例を示す。

Translation:

In the Jōyō Kanji List, we have illustrated each kanji’s form (the structure of the written character) using one of the types of Ming Dynasty script as an example. This is not a matter of thereby attempting to change writing habits in the context of writing in standard script. Even when the kanji are the same in terms of structure, as we show in 1 and 2, between the form of kanji in the Ming Dynasty script and the form of kanji in handwritten standard script, there are differences on various points. These are things that should be seen as differences in representation based on the differences in habits in the contexts of printed characters and handwritten characters respectively.

In addition, there are contexts in which differences in representation on the basis on differences in habits with regard to printed characters and handwritten characters extend to differences in kanji form (the structure of the written character), as we show in 3. Below, we show examples of each, sorted. All are presented in the ‘Ming Dynasty script – Handwriting (written standard script)’ format, with the Ming Dynasty script on the left and a handwritten example of the same on the right.

In particular, the examples include this one
Screenshot 2020-11-17 at 18.41.32
meaning that both forms are considered correct, just that one is more common in handwriting.

1 Like

Is 婦人 only for like a medieval lady or is it just another word for woman

You’re probably better off checking example sentences on ejje.weblio.jp and the like to see how it’s really used, but 大辞林 says that it means ‘adult woman’ and used to mean ‘married woman’ in particular, which is a sense that still exists in Chinese. It seems that 婦人 appears in compounds quite a lot, where it means ‘woman’ or ‘female’, like in 婦人科 (gynaecology) or 婦人警官 (policewoman).

1 Like

Ok thanks. Was just curious because the Google images on the kanji seemed like “lord and lady” but i know they arent always accurate

1 Like

The trick with Google Image Search is that if the term also exists in Chinese, you may have a throw a “site:*.jp” into the search terms.

2 Likes

That’s never worked for me. I always just get Chinese text on pages ending in .jp :confused:

Yeah, it’s not flawless, but it’s generally better than not.

I’ve never tried it personally, but I’ve heard that putting a single random kana at the end of a search term also works, since most (if not all) of them will be used in any given Japanese webpage anyway.
Testing it just now with “中文” and “中文の” it seems pretty alright!

3 Likes

I’m just wondering, is it more beneficial to read fewer Japanese articles slower and try to understand every bit, or read more but don’t soak in as much/kind of skim/read more normally?

2 Likes

I’ve thought a lot about this over the years and I’ve gone back and forth between the two a lot over the years. I think it’s important to consider what aspect of your Japanese you feel is lacking. It’s also important to consider the level of materials you’re reading. In my opinion, you should be practicing reading quickly with more easy to read materials, but with more difficult to read materials, you should take your time and consolidate your understanding of the grammar.

3 Likes

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you! :blush:

2 Likes

I have a hard time translating/understanding this sentence:

パンダのえのタクシーは、ふくおかどうぶつえんに1だいだけあります。

-Watanoc Panda Taxi

From my understanding it means “the Taxi’s drawing of a Panda in Fukuoka Zoo is only one” but I’m really unsure about it. Another guess is “the taxi with a panda drawing in Fukuoka Zoo is only one”. Both google and DeepL are as clueless as I am.

Thanks!

There is only one taxi with a picture of a panda in Fukuoka zoo.
Or maybe more literal: Speaking of the taxi with a picture of a panda, there is only in Fukuoka zoo.

3 Likes