The quick or short Language Questions Thread (not grammar)

しりぞく is a jouyou reading for 退, meaning it’s part of mandatory education. None of the other verb readings for 退 are taught in the jouyou set.

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Anything pink on that site, kanjipedia, is jouyou. Black readings are outside of the jouyou set.

It’s also not a particularly rare word. The site jpdb lists it as appearing in a decent number of the things they catalog on the site.

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I think it’s fair to say that どく is a more common word than しりぞく, but I’d be kind of surprised if writing どく as 退く was actually more common than writing しりぞく as 退く.

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I recently saw どく written as 退く (with furigana) when reading a book, but I think it’s usually written in kana. From books at least, I’d definitely say 退く is more often しりぞく.

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Honestly I’ve found it more common than どく but I don’t really run across either that frequently.

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Had no idea どく could be written as 退く, lol
My dictionary also writes どく in hiragana before 退く at the entry, so it’s definitely not considered standard yet.

But yes, on spoken Japanese どく is way more common a word than しりぞく, no doubt.

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Does something about 画廊 imply that it can only be paintings/drawings? When I image searched I saw various galleries with mixed media, which I would call “art galleries” in English but WK doesn’t even have “art gallery” on the accept list for 画廊. Oversight or am I missing something?

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Oversight. This is how Goo defines 画廊:

Displaying/giving an exhibition of art pieces ・ place of exhibition. <this part I’m not sure of>. Art gallery.

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Thank you!

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Does this help:

画商の店を指すこともある

It can also refer to an Art Dealer’s shop

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A lot actually, thanks! Classic no-kanji brainfart on my side. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Could someone here tell me the difference between いつしか and いつの間にか?

They can mean the same thing, but いつしか can also be used like いつか, meaning someday, in the future. That’s not the case for いつの間にか.

Other than that, I can’t say I’ve ever heard a person say いつしか, while いつの間にか is fairly common.

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In addition to what Leebo said, いつの間にか is more conversational, whereas いつしか is more formal.

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Thank you @Leebo @Shunrin I encountered both expressions in a visual novel and added them to my SRS and always mixed them up. Now I finally know the difference.

One more little thing: いつしか, according to 大辞林, is an emphasised/stronger form of いつか, so I guess you could try to understand it using that information.

Besides what’s been said so far, this study says that いつしか tends to focus on not noticing the beginning of a change, whereas いつの間にか tends to focus on the result of the change:

(I should probably find the time to read through the entire thing, but that’s what I got from skimming the text and reading the まとめ (summary/conclusion).)

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So to not let my Tobira be totally useless I decided to work through it in kind of a fast track as reading material. The first chapter was all smooth saling except this one sentence here:
この本の難しさを知っていたら、買わなかったと思います。
The 買う is in past tense so it should be done → Not bought, but the thinking is in present tense, like I’m still considering it?
I can’t exactly describe why this sentence feels wrong to me but maybe someone can help me nonetheless with unblocking my thinking. Had good success here before.

AHHH! As I wrote this just know, could it be that I’m commenting on somenone elses actions? Like: I think (he/she/it) didn’t buy it knowing the difficulty of the book.
(Sadly this example sentence doesn’t have any more context)

“If I had known this book’s difficulty, I think I wouldn’t have bought it”

I think it’s just that Japanese isn’t as granular when it comes to things like “had known” and “wouldn’t have” (perfect tense) compared to English, so it’s expressed using the past tense instead. If it’s known that you did in fact buy the book (which I think it is from the conditional), then it should be clear from context that 買わなかった (when tied to the conditional in the previous clause) doesn’t literally mean “didn’t buy”. In this sentence, the thinking (that maybe it wasn’t a good idea to buy the book) is in the present, so present tense for 思う makes sense to me.

That’s my take at least.

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Duh, thanks. After your explanation I totally see it too -.-.

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No, I’m pretty sure that this means ‘I think that if I had known the difficulty [level] of this book, I would not have bought it’.

It’s more like… I think (right now) that if (in the past) I had been aware of the difficulty level of this book (知っていたら because 知る is usually in a continuous tense in affirmative form, and in a non-continuous tense for negative forms, because ‘knowing’ is seen as a continuous state that begins from the point of discovering something in Japanese), I would not have bought it (in the past, which is why it’s 買わなかった and not 買わない).


That aside, while I don’t really know how to explain this properly and it’s not that helpful here, tenses don’t always work the same way in Japanese. First of all, the continuous tenses just express a continuous state in the past or the present, and how exactly that state is continuous depends on usage and context (e.g. in the famous お前はもう死んでいる meme, 死んでいる means ‘to have died’ or ‘to be dead’, because 死ぬ is usually treated as a point action). Secondly, whether a ‘present’ or ‘past’ tense is used is often something determined relative to the… ‘cognitive subject’ i.e. the person who is acquiring knowledge and understanding of the action in question. It’s really a matter of whether or not the action is complete relative to the relevant frame of reference, not whether or not it’s over for the speaker. For example,

日本に行く時ビザを取った
When I was headed for/about to go to/was on the way to Japan, I got a visa

The action of ‘going’ occurred in the past, but relative to the next/main verb (取った) – which points us towards the relevant frame of reference – it was not yet complete, so 行く is the form it has to take. By a similar token, it’s OK to use either continuous tense to talk about a continuous background state in the past with an expression like 〜時, like in

学校に通っていた・いる時、ゲームが好きでした
When I was going to school, I liked games

The reason is that even with the past continuous, seeing as we’re talking about something in the past, the verb before 時 could just indicate that that state started a little earlier in the past.

The paper (most of) these ideas are based on is this one:

I need to find time to read it again though, because I honestly didn’t understand absolutely everything the first time, and I’m still a little confused about certain bits. Either way though, it changed how I looked at tense in Japanese, and I think that’s helped me quite a bit.

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In a phrase like 「永遠の愛」, how common would it be to read 永遠 as えいえん vs とわ? I’m aware that とわ sounds more poetic and is probably the better choice, but would reading it as えいえん still be acceptable, or would it just be weird?

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I had a look at other 永遠のX phrases like 永遠の眠り and 永遠の旅人, but all of the ones I found read 永遠 as えいえん :frowning:

EDIT:
But actually, 永久 has an uncommon reading of とわ. Is this the book case of “those are not the kanji you’re looking for” kinda deal?