I indeed did exactly that, drill new level vocabularies with Self-Study Quiz before sending new level Kanji lessons to SRS. (So I indeed did vocab lessons twice, first time without SRS, second with.)
Short term memory of vocab soon to be forgotten isn’t always true. Sometimes vocab stays without recalling how to write, unless the word has Furigana (in many real materials). Kanji also stays in short term memory soon to be forgotten, before waiting to know support vocabularies – extreme examples very short and unspecific Kun, like あ, that trailing Okurigana helps with recalling.
But On’yomi indeed feels so similar in many vocabularies, making learning Kanji well helpful (but not exactly needs to be first, just narrowly separated by days with any first is enough). Both Kanji and vocab can be first.
When Kun’yomi is long and very specific, I may need to use mnemonics, but the actual remembering and recalling is more about sound and immersion. imo, Kanji only matters here for materials without Furigana for that Kanji using Kun’yomi.
I have always wanted to be able to switch from Kun’yomi to On’yomi emphasis, so that WaniKani can be adapted to those who used WaniKani for a while, as well as those who have just started WaniKani anew. (Though I also didn’t start WaniKani from zero. That was already a few years in.)
The problem could be bigger than that, not just Kun (と) or On (コ), but also On’yomi choice. Any On’yomi being correct might not be enough.
Is it OK with let Kanji 財 having reading さい for the sake of (slightly) more common 財布, while 財 is used almost exclusively in other words as well as single-Kanji word (財)?
I think there are less extreme examples with more justified reason for frequency, but I can’t recall right now.
Yeah, there is a point where you have to make a choice about which reading to teach in the case of multiple On readings. I think that’s the kind of thing that will naturally happen in a system like WK which does have limitations, I don’t see them allowing multiple readings for a kanji as correct any time soon.
It allows any On’yomi, one at a time, but they have to choose only one between On and Kun (and Nanori).
Though in this case, I want さい to shake, not accepted, but it’s not going to happen by this platform infrastructure (even if they change mnemonics to be for ざい, but that’s a different matter).
Maybe I’m quite unconventional, but I don’t even think about Kun’yomi and On’yomi. I basically just memorize kanji readings from the vocabulary that they are in. If the kanji is a word on its own, I’ll memorize it. If a kanji has a certain reading when used as part of another word I’m looking at, I’ll memorize that too . In the end, I guess I subconsciously do end up knowing the Kun and On anyways, but without having to think about all the details too much.
To be honest, I kind of hated the pink Kanji cards here on Wanikani. I mostly just cared about the gist of what this kanji can mean if I see it, and then I was eager to just see it in vocabulary and in context to learn how to read it. I didn’t care about analyzing its radicals or making up stories for it, and I didn’t particularly care about wrapping my head around 4 different readings before moving on. I was ultimately able to pass all the pink cards by just recalling their readings from words I know.
Having said that though, ofcourse for those that do analyze the On’yomi and Kun’yomi, it is important that what they are learning is efficient, useful, and doesn’t potentially setup for conflict later on. So if the suggestions here will improve the program for many users, then that would be great.
But also, in the grand scheme of things, especially with something that takes as much time and is as convoluted as learning Japanese, I think it’s inevitable to make mistakes both from the learning perspective and the teaching perspective. And people’s ideas of what is better, more efficient, or more effective for a learner might vary.
Understood. But, the relevant opinions on this topic are from people who are trying to go through wanikani the first time or for people who are going back to wanikani after a period away. You got to learn using the old format and you made it through. Understand that those of us who are newer to wanikani just want the same opportunity.
I think that’s a perfectly valid approach (and that’s effectively what native speakers do after all) but the problem is that it’s explicitly not what WaniKani is supposed to teach. The whole progression is radical → kanji → vocab, not vocab-first and then you add the kanji knowledge on top of that (which, again, is also perfectly valid, but a different method).
Also I think that going vocab-first makes the most sense when a kanji is used predominantly in one single word or a small handful of words. 挨拶, 躊躇 or 頷く would be examples of this. 明 is certainly not in this category however, with both its kun an on readings being commonly used.
And even if you decided to go vocab-first, you certainly wouldn’t learn the あ part of あかり alone, without the okurigana. You’d just learn the whole word.
I don’t think WaniKani benefits from this hybrid approach that doesn’t quite commit to one side or the other, even though on paper they claim to be kanji-first.
Hey, so because of this thread I decided to write a userscript, that changes the expected reading of all kanji cards to on’yomi (except if there is none).
Of course it doesn’t change the mnemonic and what it says on the lesson page, but all quizzes will test you on the on’yomi reading instead. There’s also an option to make both on’yomi and kun’yomi accepted for normally kun’yomi only kanji.
I started wanikani in like August of last year and hit 60 a couple of months ago, so I wouldn’t really say I used the “old” format . I think I am more or less a “new”-ish user and not really like a veteran or anything.
Nevertheless, it’s kind of odd making assumptions about someone and deciding who you think is relevant to simply make a comment on a topic. Echo chambers are boring and I personally like hearing multiple perspectives.
I also supported the suggestions that people are saying here and said that if it will improve wanikani for many people then ofcourse it should be updated. So I’m on your side .
My main point was simply like a “don’t panic” kind of thing, where in the long run you will get very familiar with all of the various readings anyways. So maybe for some kanji it might seem inefficent or flawed, especially in hindsight, but I wouldn’t say that it is completely debilitating and should make you quit.
Personally, I don’t really care about readings and vocab is the true gem that will lead the way. Everything else is an artificial construct to help you get there but otherwise I don’t really see the point in worrying too much about readings.
Even the concept of radicals evolved way, centuries apparently, after the innovation of Kanji. I do care about radicals and readings in that they help me get somewhere but mnemonics and radicals are meant to be forgotten until the only thing that remains is the vocabulary and an internal sense of what it might sound like.
I am getting the sense that its supposed to feel somewhat loose and you should eventually just know the readings via long term practice over many years.
Like if you asked me the on or the kun readings for kanji I should know by level 14 im probably not going to be able, but if you put a word in front of me there is a good chance I will know it.
Yup! No argument from me here. I essentially used the program in a completely unintended and unconvential way and just chose early on to do it differently, mainly because I had the foresight from learning other languages that it would be ok for me.
The progression of radical>kanji>vocab is made explicitly clear and it should be overall designed to make that process as effective and efficient as possible. So I completely agree with what you’re saying .
Also, I do agree with you that the choice for 明 is quite baffling . Since I never really looked carefully at the pink card’s main readings, I didn’t even know that readings like あ were suggested. I certainly never think of あ for that kanji ever.
I wonder how much of this has to do with the radical>kanji>vocab setup though . Like for me and perhaps for you, the あ reading is bizarre because when I think of the vocab, it doesn’t quite make sense. But maybe in the spirit of keeping wanikani’s progression system, it has some kind of flow to it .
But yeah, judging from the feedback here there isn’t really a flow to some of these kanji examples so let’s make it better.
Just came in to pitch in with an agreement! As someone just starting in on Level 3, I can already see how this back and forth approach in the UI is impacting my learning. It’s been super difficult for me to differentiate between onyomi vs kunyomi readings and which one I need to use because Wanikani isn’t consistent in which reading they teach first. I think using the script made above would help in regards to consistency but it’s not an option since I only drill Wanikani on Smouldering Durtles.
Living in Japan for over two years now. I get where the complaints are coming from. I have been on WK since 2017. Got to level 43 and then stalled out for a couple of years. Reset. Now I’m back to level 30. I’m still progressing at a slow pace though. I’ve only noticed a few changes to the readings recently. But I will say, the original reading taught on WK for 北 was actually きた. It got changed to ほく later and now I guess they switched it back? As far as 明, I think knowing the めい reading is super helpful. But I ALSO think know the あ reading is super helpful. It’s actually used quite a bit here. For example, 明日 can be read as あした or あす.
Personally, as others have mentioned, I ended up learning the readings through the various words. I DO think there is value in understanding the on’yomi reading as I have been able to deduce the reading of certain compound words due to knowing the on’yomi reading. Even so much so that it’s surprised many Japanese people.
But honestly, the best way to learn all of these is just immersing in it. If you continue on with WK, you will learn most of the readings that you need to know. Especially if you also spend time in Japan or consuming a lot of Japanese media. You will just start to absorb it all over time. WK is great but it’s really not a full replacement (at all) for actually immersing yourself in the language. I would even argue that, in the beginning, focusing too much on reading and kanji in general is not very helpful and even possibly detrimental to your long-term success. Just like children, if we can listen to spoken language and understand it, we will be able to fill in the gaps with all of other stuff eventually. After all, technically, language is just the words that are spoken anyway. Formalized written language came along a lot later….
I’m sure that might make many people angry but I digress….Just stick with it. It will all work out if you stay consistent!
I really appreciate that you took the trouble to comment. This is a problem for large number of very diverse learners on the platform. It is not affecting everyone equally, and I do understand that it is not a problem for everyone using the program. The change seems to help no one, be neutral for some people, but for people who are trying to get through and don’t want to just wait until it all works out in the end, or don’t have the extra time to make up for wanikani’s poor decision in changing the program, it is just disappointing. There are ways to reduce the harm, but they all take extra time. And time is the most valuable thing we have.
I appreciate these comments, recognizing that vocab mastery is the end goal, but I don’t think they really address the issue. We probably all agree that the optimal way to learn to read Japanese is immersion - frequent, real-world exposure to written and spoken vocabulary. Best-case scenario, move to Japan, learn 20k vocab words, and be continually exposed to the corresponding kanji. But we can’t all do that, and that is why tools like WK exist. The most helpful apps are designed to provide logical, systematic approaches to jumpstarting your studies by teaching and leveraging coherent patterns that exist in the language. If you’re already learning by immersion, you may not need that, but for those of us who live in non-immersive environments and have limited study time, such tools are very important to help us reach a sufficient threshold of proficiency that we can more meaningfully immerse in native materials.
One of the most fundamental patterns that WK stresses is that, the vast majority of the time, you have a reasonable chance of being able to read a jukugo word if you know the onyomi of the constituent kanji; and if a word includes hiragana, then it mostly likely uses the kunyomi, instead. This pattern is extremely valuable, e.g., in helping you learn/retain new vocabulary, sound out words that you may know aurally, but not have seen written, look up unfamiliar words in a hiragana or romanji dictionary, etc.
But it’s not very helpful if you can’t distinguish the onyomi from the kunyomi. I’m just a bit confused as to why WK would spend so much time hammering the distinction between jukugo words and those with okurigana, but then waffle when it comes to systematically teaching the onyomi. It seems like they’re undermining their own methodology. (Or at least the methodology I thought/hoped they were using.) They’re teaching us an extremely helpful rule, but then muddying our ability to apply it. I just don’t see any reason to do that. Saying that a kunyomi is more common doesn’t seem like sufficient justification to compromise the system.
They just did this to 夜. It feels like they’re trending to teaching kunyomi as the primary kanji reading. Isn’t it repetitive because the kunyomi also gets its own vocab item? I signed up for WK to get better at differentiating between kunyomi and onyomi, and guessing readings for jukugo. This trend is not reassuring.
Will just add my voice of support to what seems to be the most common opinion here – these changes seem to go against the entire point of learning a reading with the kanji. The reason you do that is to be able to apply that same guess to compounds in the future. If the reading you learn is the kunyomi that’s used with basically one word like 夜, what’s the point? Yeah technically there’s 夜型, 夜ご飯, etc but that’s the kind of thing where you learn in certain simple patterns the kun takes priority. よ/や is still the one you want to be encountering new words and guessing. It fundamentally doesn’t matter if 夜 is the word you’ll see most, because the system, as far as I understand it, only existed this way in the first place on the basis of wanting to give you readings with kanji that you could take to new unknowns and have a good shot at guessing them.
This does mean certain kanji as WK already had it were flawed and should probably be reworked to also teach on-readings, or like someone had suggested find a way to just skip teaching a reading with it if that’s being done to uphold the structure but with no real benefit, and yeah, I think that direction would be better than this one.
Just wanted to add my voice of support. I’m at level 12 and have been here since March 2025 and have already noticed several “we changed the reading of the kanji”, and it seems to always be towards the kun’yomi.
I much prefer learning the on’yomi first and have gotten into the habit now of checking which reading they are giving me when I learn a new kanji, and learning the on’yomi if they give me the kun’yomi first.
I think the threshold for it being kun’yomi first for the kanji should be extremely high, like those rare cases where the on’yomi is very rarely used, at least in common compound words, like ‘te’ for hand’.
Even then, I find myself confused later when I am told that I never learned the on’yomi and was using the kun’yomi the entire time, as I associate learning kanji readings with on’yomi first, then kun’yomi for vocab/verbs later.
You’ve got a great product here, I’m loving it, step away from the readings!
I don’t know if I’ve noticed it allowing multiple On’yomi.
. In the end, I guess I subconsciously do end up knowing the Kun and On anyways, but without having to think about all the details too much.
. I think I am more or less a “new”-ish user and not really like a veteran or anything.
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