(The increasingly less) Daily senryu thread

I got angry and my dishwashing became more vigorous.

Took some license with the vocab here, and as always, I have not counted syllables, but… Maybe the meaning is accurate. I’m no stranger to passive agressiveness, and I’m getting strong vibes.

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I took it as the author hearing his spouse angrily washing dishes, but, as always, the lack of subjects makes it difficult to know for certain.

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This reminds me of a time when my roommate came home and started loudly reorganizing our freezer. I knew to keep my distance :sweat_smile:

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Am I missing something, or is senryu 343 missing the reading for 日 after 出社日?

Nope. My bad. Just a typo: I forgot the ひ.

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Wouldn’t it be び?

腹立てて洗う茶碗の賑やかさ

はらたてて・あらうちゃわんの・にぎやかさ

3-5-3
Whence this bout
of brisk cup washing?
Pique, perchance?

  • There should be a “Dear” preceding the verse, but, it’d spoil the 音のバランス.
  • Which is also the reason the “tea” of the “cup” was jettisoned - doesn’t have the significance of the numerous, small 茶碗 that take up space in the sink of a Japanese kitchen. (Some things can only be experienced and do poorly when translated into an alien language.)

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:

I discussed this senryu further with the 先生 here at the Yamasa Institute. Here are a couple more clarifying points that she brought up that is worth mentioning:

  • The senryu is not a statement addressed at someone (as I had understood it) as much as an observation of human behavior in general.

  • Although the word used to describe the action at the sink is 賑やかさ, it is meant to conjure up the clatter of angry washing. i.e. the sound, more than the energy. As in angry slamming of the door, or slamming of a file on the desk. Those are also 賑やかな actions, but the visual image one gets upon reading “angrily shut the door” is that of the door being slammed shut (some very calm people may not and to them, I most 'umbly offer my mea culpas). Thus, my translation of the word as “brisk” in this context doesn’t conjure up the image as 賑やかさ would in a Japanese person’s head.

  • 茶碗 is generic for bowls and not just tea cups. The Japanese sink is full of bowls of all sorts, including tea cups.

  • Based on the above, a better translation would be:

    The clatter / of bowls being washed / in anger.

    which is more in the spirit of a senryu and more faithful to the original (a 3-5-3 too!).

Going back to the one that I missed,

「出社日は 次はいつなの?」 妻の圧

Wifely nudge-nudge: / “When are you going / back to office?”
4-5-4 (Homage to Monty Python)

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Hmm. I’m not sure, but ひ sounds more likely to my ears.

I’ll have to ask a native, but I think あ段 stays with ひ:

記念日 (び) and 何曜日 (び), but 変えた日 (ひ) and 朝日 (ひ).

With that, I think the parrot has ceased to exist.

(Dances with fish slaps) Know what I mean? Know what I mean?

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jisho.org says しゅっしゃび .

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Huh.

I need to ask a native, but I still think ひ sounds more likely in the senryu. I think maybe because 出社 alone is also a word (with almost exactly the same effective meaning here: when are you going in vs. what day are you going in).

Weirdly, び sounds normal to me if it was something like 10/31は出社日です. But phrased as a question like it is in the senryu, my brain expects ひ.

I wonder if it’s a regional thing or something.

Always possible I’m just wrong, too, of course, but I do suspect at least some natives would read it as ひ.

Now I’m curious.

A betting man would have been wise to go with this option. It appears that び is indeed the correct reading.

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I can’t think of any situations off the top of my head where that suffix 日 would be ひ, so if you have any other words you thought were ひ it might be worth looking into those

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日本から変えた日は。。。

I think my confusion might be because it’s a suru verb:

出社した日はいつだったか?

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I think Vanilla was talking about 日 as a suffix to nouns.

When a clearly defined, existing noun (eg 定休、記念、給料、出発、支払い、出社) take the 日 suffix, it’s always び as far as I know. Can’t think of any exception :thinking:

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Yeah, I think it was the fact that 出社(しゅっしゃ) is also a suru verbs that confused me. I tend to always think of suru verbs as verbs first, with “nouniness” being the special case.

It seems like with azars explanation you were able to see what I mean, but just a piece of unsolicited advice

I don’t think your way of thinking about it would particularly serve you well if I’m understanding correctly. Nouns when not followed by suru are nouns first if anything. Not verbs. I don’t think trying to assume they’ll behave the same as verbs is very helpful

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Vanilla, I think you’re missing the tone of his answer, so I’ll give you some unsolicited advice as well.

Your response reads as super condescending (I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that was not your intention.) You might have more success on the social forums if you spend a little more time thinking about the way you’re interacting with others in this community.

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I’m not particularly looking for social success on here. If people find my blunt replies condescending, I’m ok with that. I think people know what they’re getting from me at this point, and the members I care most about in terms of their opinion of me seem to understand my replies don’t come from a mean place.

Regardless, I appreciate your honesty and forwardness.

Oh, no. I didn’t mean they behaved as verbs without する, of course.

I only meant that was probably why I thought ひ sounded better to me. Nobody would pronounce する日 as するび (I can’t find the tilde on this blasted phone keyboard).

But I do (and will continue) thinking of the suru verb form of many words as the “primary” meaning, even though it’s a noun without the suru.

出社 should be thought of as a nominalized verb to my way of thinking. Effectively, it’s like a gerund (“going to work”).

To me, words like 出社 seem different from “pure” nouns that don’t relate to any sort of action. 鉛筆 isn’t a suru verb, it’s purely and only a noun. But to me words like 出社 mostly conjure a mental image of the action, even when they function as nouns grammatically.

My brain isn’t terribly consistent, though. I think of 電話, for example, as primarily noun-like even though it can be a suru verb. It’s a “thing” while 出社 is primarily a (possibly nominalized) action. 買い物 is somewhere in between.

Good, bad, or indifferent, it’s just how my brain has categorized words.

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In terms of meaning that makes more sense. I thought you meant you viewed them as verbs first from a grammatical standpoint as well