(The increasingly less) Daily senryu thread

Yes, I’m also inclined to think this is all that’s going on. It’s just convenient to save the watermelon rinds for the day before garbage pickup. The wording is pretty specific that it’s the day before garbage collection.

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Keep in mind that many or most of these are quite likely “Salaryman” senryu (submissions to the annual competition). The author just categorized them into similar themes. The ones labeled “Salaryman” in my spreadsheet were just later adds to the original page from the 2007+ competitions.

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I think basically everyone agrees on the literal meaning, but I’m still not sold on the context. My thought is

[spoiler]in America watermelons are huge and also normal occurrences, we eat them regularly at big gatherings, and they create a lot of waste, which is why my first thought was that it is convenient for the trash to go out after watermelon day.

But in Japan, watermelons are small and considered to be special things, so you bring them out as a very special treat or at a special event (at least that’s my understanding). So that might negate the idea of having a ton of waste in terms of the rind, and instead put forward the context of shoot, this is a special event, and I can’t put out the trash until afterwards[/spoiler]

In any case, I’ve got no clue which context a Japanese person would lean toward, this is all just idle speculation

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]
Japan treats most fruit as special and a luxury. Fruit here is expensive! and they are only really sold when they are in season which makes them more expensive. Also, often fruit will go bad within a day or two, so if you buy a watermelon you have to eat it all in one go. (this isdue to not using as many chemicals as America does on it’s produce)

So you have this big watermelon, lots of prep, very messy, always has seeds (there is no seedless watermelon in Japan) and it takes up space in the garbage. I’m sure the context is just, it’s a messy fruit, lots of clean up, and if you wanted to use it as a special occassion, it works well if it lines up right before garbage day
[/spoiler].

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Asked my coworker and she said she interpreted it as lucky, so I think you’re right and my alternate interpretation is wrong

ゴミしゅうしゅう のまえびわがや スイカのひ (6-7-5)

5-7-5

At our home, the day
before trash collection is
watermelon day

My understanding: Presumably to get rid off the watermelon rinds on the next day (trash pickup) to avoid fruit flies and such pests that multiply in summer (when WM is in season). Plus, the 生ゴミ (food waste) is typically picked up twice a week, and so not much of a problem to plan around.

Then again, it may simply be this family’s peculiar idiosyncrasy. :wink:

EDIT:

Good point. The 生ゴミ bags used are typically smaller due to the twice a week pickup. At least where I live when I’m in Japan.

3 Likes

Tuesday, July 12, 2022


Previous senryu

  1. ゴミ収集の前日わが家スイカの日
    ごみしゅう・しゅうのまえびわがや・すいかのひ
    Our “Watermelon day” falls the day before garbage day

Notes:

  • :confetti_ball: to @superelf94

  • :trophy: @LaVieQ

  • As usual I applied liberal editorial privilege. I really liked “conveniently” capturing the spirit, but since it wasn’t in the original, I felt better about adding an implied “falls” instead. I don’t think there’s any way to capture this one with a 3-5-3 or 4-5-4. I gave up on even creating three stanzas!

  • As discussed, large amounts of 生ゴミ can be inconvenient in Japan. It makes sense to schedule activities.

  • Apparently, スイカの() really is a thing invented by growers in Japan. It falls on 7/27 which is a rhyming pun on (なつ)(つな). The “rope” is from the striped pattern on the rind which is reminiscent of a Yokozuna (Sumo) belt.

  • This one gets a star as I enjoyed the discussion and the 7/27 thing interested me!

Obligatory photo of Chiyonofuji (the wolf) who will always have a special place in my heart as the greatest ever in the sport!

Current senryu challenge

Volume: Corona

  1. 掃除して! 一応これでも 勤務中

No hints, but this one hits close to home (laugh). It still amazes me that the entire planet has now “worked” from home for so long.


Remember to please use the spoiler tag with your translation attempts! Also, please include the reading in kana with your submission.

Everyone is encouraged to participate, no matter your level!

Online tools like dictionaries, sentence databases, and even AI translation engines are fair game and can be extremely helpful. Yomichan is particularly handy if you use the Chrome or Firefox browser. The 語源(ごげん)由来(ゆらい)辞典(じてん) is also an excellent resource for researching the etymology of various words and expressions.

Here are the links to the 356 Japanese originals (spoiler free) and to the the spreadsheet with all the upcoming senryu as well as the translations to date.

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Sorry. Had to be done.

I blame COVID …

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Suggest you add one more to make him look a truly menacing, fierce wolf… :upside_down_face:
Sorry, couldn’t resist…

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そうじして! いちおうこれでも きんむちゅう

3-5-3

“Clean up!” While
seemingly not, I’m
still at work!!

This translation is somewhat clumsy , but it will do.

I never got a good understanding of how to use 一応, despite having heard it used by the natives. This 川柳 definitely motivated me to look for a good explanation. These definitions for 一応 and これでも一応 proved helpful.

The 川柳 sounds like the life of a disgruntled サラリーマン in the 新コロナ時代. As opposed to my initial impression that he was stoically adding 掃除 as part of his “work from home” life: “I’ll do it. After all, in general, clean up is also working at home,” it turns out the he is grumbling about his lot. :laughing:

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That’s really good.

I’ve always translated 一応 in my head as “more or less” or “roughly”. I also thought これでも was it’s own thing and didn’t realize the two were sometimes paired. I always understood これでも to mean “even I” or “even this”, but Kenkyusha has these relevant entries:

  • これでも ローマ字
    such as I am; whatever you may take me for.
    ►これでも私は幸せです. Even like this, I am happy.
    ・これでもまだ 40 前だ. Old as I may appear, I haven’t turned forty yet.
    ・これでもかというほど殴られた. They beat me and beat me (as though they wanted to see how much I could take). | I ┏got mercilessly beaten [got a merciless beating].
    ・雨はこれでもかというくらい降り続いた. The rain fell ┏mercilessly [without pity].
    ・これでもくらえ. Take that.

I also thought the author was saying that even cleaning/sweeping was still work (like he was explaining himself to his boss in his head).

The “take that” example still has me leaning that way a bit. これでも勤務中 on its own could definitely mean “even this is working”.

I’m conflicted but since I’m still not fully recovered and your explanations make sense, I’m going with your interpretation: “I may not look it, but I’m working”.

1 Like

Wednesday, July 13, 2022


Previous senryu

  1. 掃除して! 一応これでも 勤務中
    そうじして!・いちおうこれでも・きんむちゅう
    Clean up! I’m still working, after a fashion

Notes:

  • :confetti_ball: to @LaVieQ (who’s on a roll)

  • Ultimately, I decided to go with my own more direct word-for-word translation (or transliteration). @LaVieQ 's interpretation is almost certainly correct, but I decided against using “seemingly” as it isn’t quite stated explicitly in the original.

  • これでも勤務中 on its own basically means “even this is working”.

  • I’ve intentionally left the English version ambiguous. It can be interpreted as being directed to a spouse: “I can’t clean, I’m working (despite appearances)”. Alternately, perhaps less likely, it can be interpreted as “Cleaning is still working” (as an internal monologue).

Current senryu challenge

Volume: Ladies

  1. 兄さんがいるのでしょうとよく聞かれ

Well. Reading the kanji shouldn’t be difficult with this one (level 5 and level 10).

I’m presuming her brother is good-looking!


Remember to please use the spoiler tag with your translation attempts! Also, please include the reading in kana with your submission.

Everyone is encouraged to participate, no matter your level!

Online tools like dictionaries, sentence databases, and even AI translation engines are fair game and can be extremely helpful. Yomichan is particularly handy if you use the Chrome or Firefox browser. The 語源(ごげん)由来(ゆらい)辞典(じてん) is also an excellent resource for researching the etymology of various words and expressions.

Here are the links to the 356 Japanese originals (spoiler free) and to the the spreadsheet with all the upcoming senryu as well as the translations to date.

I would have assumed his brother

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It is in the Ladies volume…

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The ladies would be the people doing the asking.

おにいさんがいるの でしょうと よくきかれ

I often get
asked, “Is your big
brother around?~”

I don’t think the gender of who is being asked is important here. Either way the brother is definitely an イケメン is the vibe I get.

2 Likes

にいさんが いるのでしょうかと よくきかれる

3-4-3

I’m often
asked: “Have any
elder bros?”

In other words, she’s being hit upon…

Just out of curiosity, I made duckduck go do a search on 女性に「兄がいるか」と聞く理由 that unearthed vast amount of information. Enough material to fill a pop psychology paperback, as in this page. Apparently, women with an elder brother are desirable to Japanese men.

Who knew translating 川柳 would open my mind to the vast and wondrous psyche of contemporary Japan’s mores. :grin:

Good illustrative examples.

2 Likes

Thursday, July 14, 2022


Previous senryu

  1. 兄さんがいるのでしょうとよく聞かれ
    にいさんが・いるのでしょうかと・よくきかれる
    I’m often / asked: “Have any / elder bros?”

Notes:

  • :confetti_ball: to @LaVieQ

  • TIL! “Apparently, women with an elder brother are desirable to Japanese men.”

  • This is why I enjoy these so much. It’s as much about learning cultural things as linguistic things. I am enormously entertained when I learn the relationship between watermelons and sumo, or that women with older brothers are considered attractive/desirable in Japan. That we uncover these things in just 17 mora amazes me. (By “we” I mostly mean @LaVieQ, @Myria, etc. — folks who clearly know what they are about! :smile: )

Current senryu challenge

Volume: Ladies

  1. スカートのホックつかんでくしゃみする

I think this our first one without any kanji.

No hints because the two katakana words are in most JE dictionaries.

Once again I feel confident that there is no hidden meaning and this is an easy one to translate. Once again, I expect to be proven wrong!


Remember to please use the spoiler tag with your translation attempts! Also, please include the reading in kana with your submission.

Everyone is encouraged to participate, no matter your level!

Online tools like dictionaries, sentence databases, and even AI translation engines are fair game and can be extremely helpful. Yomichan is particularly handy if you use the Chrome or Firefox browser. The 語源(ごげん)由来(ゆらい)辞典(じてん) is also an excellent resource for researching the etymology of various words and expressions.

Here are the links to the 356 Japanese originals (spoiler free) and to the the spreadsheet with all the upcoming senryu as well as the translations to date.

3-4-3 translation:

Grabbing the
clasp of my skirt
while sneezing

So, it won’t come undone? pop off? leave an imprint on the skin? All of these seem unlikely… :thinking: Not sure what it is trying to say, except for capturing an odd gesture.

That association, made all the more memorable with your picture of Chiyonofuji with a watermelon hovering between his legs, is something that I’ll remember forever. 夏の綱 :laughing:

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Googling around I found a web page that classified this one under the category of ダイエット which suggests maybe deliberately sneezing is a trick to do up a dress you’re just slightly too big for ?

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