(The increasingly less) Daily senryu thread

Lol in general I wonder what future chaos accent differences could cause

Also random but I always wish there was more info out there on the NYC accent? There only seems to be for the stereotypical one

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If I ever do write a senryu, it’s going to somehow compare NYC vs. the south (or maybe DC?) and somehow compare THAT to Osaka vs. Tokyo.

I’ve always been fascinated that NYC and Osaka are both famous for being the home of the best comedians.

Anyway, I’m going to park this here for future reference:

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Honestly I think it’s because it’s really just the common denominator of the accents of all the boroughs.

I’ve always felt like Tokyo was New York and Osaka was like Chicago, although there really isn’t a US analog that really fits.

The difficulty is that NY is a where all the headquarters AND all the comedians are (vs. Tokyo and Osaka respectively).

There is the second city thing, but that doesn’t quite work, either.

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Btw, I also say “throw” not “show”, wanted to comment on it earlier as well, but forgot :sweat_smile:

Friday, April 22, 2022


Previous senryu

  1. グーを出す孫の癖知りチョキを出す
    グーをだす・まごのくせしり・チョキをだす
    Knowing my grandchild’s / habit of throwing rocks / I show “scissors”

Notes:

  • :confetti_ball: to the first 3-way tie: @Hubbit200, @Gorbit99, and @GearAid

  • I would also tend to use the word “throw” with this game, but “throwing rocks” makes me think of a different kid’s activity. I made a unilateral decision to split the difference and explicitly encourage that connotation in the middle stanza, but make the ending more of a surprise by forcing the other.

  • Don’t hate me

Current senryu challenge

This time from the “Ladies” volume (女性編):

  1. 目は一重アゴ二重に腹は三重

めはひとえ・アゴにじゅうに・はらはさんじゅう

I don’t begin to understand this one yet. I’m not sure if it’s because I’m missing a word connotation, a poetic piece of wordplay, Japanese culture, of if I just don’t understand women! Most likely a combination of all the above.

The blurred reading above may also be completely wrong (please correct me if so)!

Two hints (though I could be completely off base):

  1. I think this primarily refers to お(じゅう), the multi-tiered lacquerware stacking boxes used during fancy Japanese meals. I’m pretty sure it’s also using at least one of the other connotations as well, but I’m not sure exactly how.
  1. I know about 40% of the people in Japan have a double (or folded) eyelid. I forget which is considered more beautiful for women. Typical oblivious guy here, I’ve certainly never noticed the difference! I do think the first stanza uses this connotation, though.

Good luck! Remember to please use the spoiler tag with your translation attempts.


Everyone is encouraged to participate, no matter your level!

Online tools like dictionaries, sentence databases, and even AI translation engines are fair game and can be extremely helpful. Yomichan is particularly handy if you use the Chrome or Firefox browser.

Here’s the link to the spreadsheet with all the upcoming senryu as well as the translations to date.

2 Likes

Translation attempt

  1. 目は一重アゴ二重に腹は三重

I think your kana is wrong here, these 重 are probably the layer counters, and those use the other counting system, the middle one is using the other reading just for the sake of the syllable count
めはひとえ、あごにじゅうに、はらはみえ。
This way the 5-7-5 is there

I think this is as simple as
Single eyelid, double chin, triple belly.
With triple belly just meaning fat, so all of these traits are considered the opposite of beautiful.
Tried looking around if this triple belly thing was a common saying or not, but all search results are this senryu, so I think translating it as is should work.

8 Likes

Translation attempt

  1. 目は一重アゴ二重に腹は三重

A single-edged eyelid, a double-chin and a beer belly

3 Likes

Translation:

Monolid, double chin, three belly rolls

Regarding your hints: I don’t think お重 has anything to do with it, I read it as a simple one-two-three structure mentioning unflattering or traditionally unwanted features.
Double eyelids are definitely considered more beautiful in Japan, with many products and even surgery marketed to women to attain this beauty ideal.

5 Likes

I just thought maybe the top/middle/bottom (eyes/chin/belly) aspect was a play on お重

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Fun fact, in korea, double eyelid surgery is a common graduation gift

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I may have to order one of these tee shirts: https://www.ttrinity.jp/shop/yuming1979/design/2090456

I’m convinced: I was making it too complicated. お重 was a red herring (@Amimononohitsuji ’s problem with yesterday’s!).

Also, to @Gorbit99 ’s point, it might use the え reading throughout (searching found a few examples of this.

Note that some versions of this senryu use で instead of に in the middle stanza (or drop it altogether).

2 Likes

Translation Attempt

Kinda a guess but
((also still tried to keep it 5-7-5))

Epicanthic fold
On a double-chin, two chins
Triple stomach rolls

2 Likes

I’m coming to the conclusion that using likes to measure consensus, while convenient, will inevitably create a judgment call each day. I think I still prefer it to the pain of creating and responding to polls, though.

It’s step two of what’s currently a 5-step process:

  1. Draft a new reply to the thread for the current day. I’m now using a “snippet” in Alfred to consistently format the post each morning and not forget anything.

  2. Pick a winner (by far the hardest part) and edit the reply accordingly, capturing any notes or comments.

  3. Choose the next one from the spreadsheet (this is the fun part). Add any hints or additional context to the post as appropriate.

  4. Update the spreadsheet with the previous day’s translation, notes, and winners. Add today’s date to the row with the current challenge.

  5. Update the top post in the thread with a link to today’s notice after it’s saved.

Judgement calls need a judge. That role makes me uncomfortable, but I’m willing to continue as long as necessary.

If anyone is interested in helping, I may delegate these duties occasionally once I’ve got the process a bit more streamlined. I want to continue doing it for a few more weeks until most of the rough edges are polished.

It would be good to formalize the measurement criteria.

I’ve been using the following criteria (roughly in order of importance/weight) to judge submissions. Feedback is welcome:

  1. Does it capture the meaning and “vibe” of the original accurately and completely?

  2. Is the English translation easily understood?

  3. Submissions with more “likes” are weighted more heavily than those with fewer.

  4. Short and pithy is better than long and wordy (to capture the essence of 5-7-5 in Japanese).

  5. Three stanzas are preferred, but strict adherence to 5-7-5 English syllables is absolutely not required. It’s nice when a translation is itself an English senryu, but that won’t often be feasible. Submissions that are English senryu are notable, but won’t normally be scored higher.

  6. Word for word substitutions when translating from Japanese to English are generally preferred (with wide latitude in choosing precisely which word is used). Extra words not in the original are penalized (but often necessary).

  7. Maintaining the order of thoughts from the original Japanese does not matter. It’s often necessary to change the order due to grammatical and stylistic differences between the languages.

  8. (Completely subjective) Which entry seems the most “poetic,” with senryu-like attributes (rueful humor, word play, surprise twists)?

Please let me know if you think I’m missing something or should prioritize differently!

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I’m not sure if replying to me was intentional, but I think any sort of prioritization system is probably fine. It’s all subjective

If you wanted to avoid being a judge, you could just include all of them in the spreadsheet, maybe just excluding any with inaccurate meanings. Especially since there aren’t that many translations each time

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That’s even more cutting and pasting, though, and I like the idea of one “consensus translation”.

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It’s only really 3 cuts and 3 pastes, at least this round
Although ig there are also names to cut/paste

I mean fair lol. This is also a subjective thing

If you’d like, I could maintain the spreadsheet of all translations, and you could maintain the spreadsheet of the consensus translations

A first volunteer. :grin:

Thanks!

A single spreadsheet is easier to maintain, and since this is a daily thing I’m trying to optimize the 5-step process above as much as possible. I’m hopeful I can get it down to just a few seconds each morning. As it is, I’m having to do lots of tab-switching and editing.

Over time I expect to get it down to an even simpler process (possibly even involving some automation).

I’d rather not give up on just ONE translation for each original, though (with notes discussing things from other translation attempts as necessary). The entire list is intended to be read eventually, and multiple translations for some of them would detract from the overall reading experience significantly.

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Makes sense! You seem older than I am (what with having a wife and all), so you’re probably also busier

I’ll maintain a separate spreadsheet with all the translations here with the winner highlighted. I think it’s a nice reference for how many ways poems can be translated

I agree, makes sense

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Older, yes, busier, no. Lazier, almost certainly. :slight_smile:

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