The Fugu That Broke The Camel's Back (Why I'm quitting WaniKani)

Ditto. Though as with the original Greek, the Japanese for that is 河馬 (“hippos” = horse, “potamos” = river).

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You provided validation and knowledge in one comment! Now I’ll never forget the word for “hippopotamus”.

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Among those that can’t read it, I’ve seen people guess かば before on 河豚, or other animals, but sometimes people would just give up and not guess anything either.

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Well, only one of them actually tried to guess the meaning without knowing it, and I don’t remember her first couple attempts before I hinted that it was a food. Afterward, she guessed, uni, I think? Then she guessed it right but it was kind of a “I’m pretty sure it’s not fugu but that’s all I can think of” kind of guess.

Also, the two that did guess it right were kind of unsure of it, to be honest. But I’m also in Tohoku, and Fugu isn’t a local specialty here.

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河豚 is not something really that obscure,
so i would have thought that the majority of Japanese native speakers would know the reading… or they could know but might confuse it with 海豚

can i ask what kind of “teachers” they were? (school teachers?)

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Oh hey, 里心 again, in a dialogue too. And that’s a medical thriller published in 2010, not something written in ye olde Yamatogo.

Arguably, there was no 河豚 (yet?) in the book.

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Honestly, that any native speakers get 河豚 sprung at them by a friend or acquaintance and can answer confidently is impressive to me.

I like to include the kanji in my anki reviews where ever possible, and with
海豹, 海豚, 河豚, 河馬
all in there… you need to be pretty on the ball to answer with 100% certainty anything other than “one of those wet animals” if you haven’t been specifically studying them.

I would guess it’s a passive comprehension type of thing, where it’s a lot harder out of context than in-context where people would normally come across it.
That kind of comprehension is harder for learners to come by naturally, and I think sometimes people assume the goal of SRS is instant active use and recall, when I think in my experience a lot of (most?) items still end up in that more passive recognition territory (which is still useful).

Like, guessing hippo or dolphin or even “I’m not sure” all seem like knowledgeable answers to me.
Getting from “what the hell’s that” to even “ah that looks like kanji for an animal that’s usually written in kana… which one was it…” has some value for learners I think (albeit maybe not critically important high-priority value…)

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Unless that context is “seafood restaurant menu”. I don’t think context will help much there. :laughing:

I was thinking mainly of that, furigana (which is pretty overt context, admittedly, but I think it counts), or visual context in something like a video game, or subtle environmental clues:

(Granted, they didn’t use the kanji on any of those signs as far as I can spot, but if they did – dolphin would be a bad guess!)

Also, the one place I’ve tracked down the kanji for sure, the title of this Golgo 13 volume:


I assume there’s something involving fugu in the story. Plus furigana inside the cover to let you know exactly what reading they were going for:
image

I mostly just wanted to point out the difference between “doesn’t know exactly what thing 河豚 refers to in a void” and “shocked upon learning 河豚 means fugu because they never knew that was a thing.”

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Yeah, they’re elementary school teachers. Most likely, they learned it at some point and then kinda forgot because it’s usually not written in Kanji.

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Hah, that was my first thought when we started talking about 河豚, but yeah, the outside of that place, at least, only uses the hiragana ふぐ.

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I asked my Japanese teacher “do you miss Japan?” (She’s living abroad) 里心を感じますか?

She was like …what??? So I type the kanji to her in the chat box and she “ahhhh just use ho-mushikku better” I was like …seriously?

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You can prove anything with facts - Facts Schmacts!

I think WaniKani is a great app for what it is able to provide. But I also think that if you want to reach a point where you’re at a conversational level of Japanese, you should focus on organically acquiring the Kanji that you will encounter often. If 河豚 is not worth remembering because no one knows this Kanji and it is not seen, used, or spoken anywhere, do try to pass the reviews on WaniKani…in fact, if it isn’t worth remember at all…just cheat.

Seriously.

I truly believe that when you eventually become good at something, you’re not expected to use EVERYTHING you have learned, only a percentage of it most of the time. After all, there is a reason why we’re not learning over 5000 Kanji or so, and only over 2000 Kanji. Don’t waste your time trying to remember something you know you’ll never use. Yes, this is probably bad advice in a way. But I always use what I need. What you need however, will depend on what your objective is and how and why you want to use Japanese. Me? I’m comfortable saying my advice because I don’t live in Japan my goals are different. Maybe I do want to learn 河豚 eventually. But until then, I’m going to start focusing more on grammar and reviews this week or two before adding anymore new vocabulary and Kanji. In fact as we speak, I’ve been doing a lot of research on how to change how I think in the language and how to revise my Anki deck better (my Anki deck is used like how you do your reviews on WaniKani, but it’s missing A LOT of synonyms. These gaps in knowledge is becoming too costly for me, so I have to slow down for now).

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The usual expression is 里心がつく (or more specifically つきました in this case). :ok_hand:
That being said, I could find a few examples online using 里心を感じる

ロボットのようなサクラですが、寂しさや里心を感じさせる人間味あるセリフですね。

source

So it seems to be possible, but much less common than the standard way.

Yes, it’s usually better as a beginner/intermediate to use more basic expressions or vocabulary since natives don’t expect advanced stuff, so if you make any mistake (or even if you don’t), they may not understand.

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Well 里心を感じますか? was a basic expression for me, because they’re kanji I’ve learn from Wanikani on the first 10 levels lol. I thought it’s must be one of the most common word that mean “homesick”.

I just didn’t expect there are that many English words have been adopted to Japanese language. Even to the point that they are not English anymore.

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Expression do not work like that. That one (里心がつく) is really a set expression (at least in modern Japanese), so you don’t have much leeway with it.

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I think the issue is that you translated “feel homesick” literally, in addition to 里心 being uncommon in casual speech.

It’s common for Japanese people to say things like “I saw a dream last night” in English because 夢を見る is how you say “have a dream” in Japanese. So while 里心を感じる seems basic, if it’s not the expression they would use, then it’s going to sound strange.

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Ah wait, I just got what you meant.
Yes, the vocabulary WK teaches is probably not the most useful for beginners, but my point was that it will become useful eventually. So WK cannot serve as a single learning source but it’s great at what it is doing.
I’ve never seen 里心 taught in any other language learning resource I have used, but I’m glad I got to learn it.

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Yes, I’m more than happy to learn any rarely use or gimmicky words. It’s just fun for me.

Hoever, I think Wanikani not really doing a great job on being the only resource to learn kanji and vocab haha.

I started reading Japanese newspaper daily 2 weeks ago. I could read like half of the articles and there are so many vocabs I feel like “they are basic vocabs in everyday life, why don’t Wanikani teach me on the first 15 levels?”

I’m getting better now with daily reading routine. I’m not sure if I should add Anki to my daily learning schedule. Just Wanikani is already a lot of work for me beside grammar, reading, and listening lessons.

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