Pretty intuitive example, I think I got it. Have to check the article you linked but meanwhile I also found this
The article was mostly a joke.
I checked it, now I see
This kind of sentence is the most frustrating to me, because I realize that despite all the time I spent studying and despite knowing what every element of this sentence means, I’m totally clueless of the overall meaning and wouldn’t even be able to figure out by myself, without the need of you guys… it feels like I’m doing something wrong
おつりを出す時間→the time of giving change
なくす→to get rid
ために→for the sake of? Because of?
「…」→for the sake of getting rid of the time of giving change? Wtf😨
At this point I don’t know what the hell this means
The last part is easier
さすがだオレ→”just as you’d expect, me!”
EDIT: I’m screaming, I just had a realization while looking for the ために grammar point. In this case it stands for “for the sake of” and the sentence can therefore be translated this way:
“ Moreover, to get rid of the time (required) to give the change (he means ‘to spare time’), exact preparation of the money “
With this, he means that in order to spare time with the purpose of being quicker and reduce the chances of being caught by someone buying that stuff, he prepared the exact amount of money he needed in advance
Without the context from the panels, I can come up with:
In order to get rid of the time spent taking out change, I even have the exact (amount of) money prepared.
I got it right then!
Hey, congrats. It might look hard, but it’s just a puzzle.
Don’t you feel
dumb smart now.
At first I felt the dumbest people on earth, but after the realization here’s how I felt:
It’s just the continuation of the series. When the main book clubs (ABBC, BBC, etc.) read a book, they generally only read the first volume, and then leave it up to the members of the club if they want to continue the series or not. If they do, it becomes an “off-shoot club,” so named because it offshoots from the main ABBC club.
In this case, a few of us did want to continue reading, so I took over managing the club. From Volume 2 on, the discussion threads are per volume instead of per chapter because, as you probably noticed, the number of people in the club, and the number of questions, went down quite a lot by the end of the club.
A subordinate clause/phrase is a clause that contains both a subject and a verb, but can’t stand on its own like as a full sentence. Generally they are formed when a word like although, when, or if (among quite a few others) are added.
“When my book is delivered” for example, isn’t a sentence on its own. It doesn’t provide enough info despite containing both a subject and a verb, which are the bare minimum requirements for a sentence, so it’s not a full sentence because there’s something it depends on to finish the phrase. (Maybe finish it with “I will read it.”)
Japanese obviously is a little less strict than English with this because they use a lot more implicit speaking than we do, but that’s the gist of it. I’ve also seen what seems to be a subordinate phrase which lacks a verb in Japanese, so it’s also slightly different than English in that way, but it’s basically just a phrase that has some qualifier that makes it not a full sentence on its own. In this case, because the phrase modifies a noun, it’s similar to when we say “A book store which doesn’t really have any people”
It meets the requirements: it has a subject and a verb, and doesn’t really work as a sentence on its own. It’s asking for more information (which could be provided by context if it was an answer to somebody’s question, for example, or by actually finishing the sentence, which is what happens in the actual manga).
This happens a lot. Like, a lot, a lot. Especially as you start to get to harder reading, it happens more often, until eventually things start clicking, and maybe it happens less. But it will still happen. You aren’t doing anything wrong.
Look at it this way, even in your native language, I’m sure you’ve come across some things that just don’t make sense. You know all the words, and it isn’t intentionally nonsense, there’s just something that doesn’t click. Maybe you are lacking context, or the proper background to know what is being talked about.
For example, before I properly studied electrical engineering in school (what I started as before deciding I liked IT better), reading certain technical documentation related to the field would have been very difficult. I would have known most of the words, at least in passing, but maybe not how they were used in that specific context. I would have to slowly piece together what was meant by focusing on the parts I didn’t know to tease a meaning out, despite it being in English.
Now, in a totally new language, you have zero context. You weren’t raised in Japan, you haven’t been immersed in the grammar your whole life, and coming from a Western language, you don’t even have the benefit of a shared root language (i.e., Latin). You’ve just got to start from zero, and start putting everything together piece by piece, gaining understanding and context as you go along. So it’s perfectly natural to come across a sentence where every word is known, but maybe the way something is applied specifically isn’t, because you haven’t seen it yet, so you’re left wondering what the heck is wrong with your brain that you can’t puzzle it together. Nothing is wrong, though, you just have to remember that you are starting totally fresh and learning context of the language and culture as you go, so it’s perfectly natural to not be able to figure something out without outside help (whether that come from your own research, checking other sources, or it comes by an answer from somebody here who has gone through the same journey of trying to puzzle out meaning from a sentence they felt they should know.)
Adding to this from an etymology perspective, the word “off-shoot” combines the prefix “off” which means “away from” and “shoot”.
In gardening, if I cut off a vine from my cucumber plant and put it in water to develop roots and make a new plant, this is called an offshoot. It’s a new plant that was taken away from the original source.
In the book clubs here, an offshoot means we are taking a book from the main book club, and separating it to develop into its own book club for that series. Another term that has a similar meaning in media is “spinoff”.
Ok so if I got what you mean, basically a sentence is a subordinate clause when an element such as conjunctions implies the existence of additional informations about the topic that are directly related to it, right?
The triple ‘a lot’ was devastating I got it, actually it would be stupid of me to think otherwise, it still happens in english even if only once every 10 sentences or more
Looking at it this way helps accepting it, it can happen in the native language too, it’s just that with a 2nd of 3rd language you focus on the error and not on everything else going great
This is 100% true but let me add a small thought to it.
Maybe, probably, it’s just my beginner impression of it but I’m feeling like Japanese is a very logical and easy to learn language, it’s just that as a westerner I’m starting with a great disadvantage for the reasons you listed above. Of course there’s a lot of subjectivity in learning languages but we can at least say that the amount of variables increases the amount of work you need to do and its complexity, and these factors have a lot of weight and play with how much you really want to learn it. Or, this is what I think based on my experience til now.
What do you think of this thought?
Now it makes sense, I didn’t know the meaning of ‘offshoot’ in english
Yep, that’s the gist of it! Though Japanese doesn’t always require there to be a conjunction since noun modifying phrases (which are subordinate clauses) don’t actually have a conjunction in Japanese. They just precede the noun they modify. Though, to translate those kinds of phrases into English, we would use a word functioning as a conjunction like “which,” “who,” “that”, etc.
I would agree that Japanese is overall a very logical language, especially when put next to a language like English, and in that way, yes, it is fairly easy to learn. There are rules with exceptions, like with any language, and once you start diving into dialects, things can start to feel a little wonky, but overall, it’s pretty logical at its core. I would say that’s the case for any language, though. English is something of an outlier, because it has so many influences, given how many times England was invaded, each time forcing changes to the language, but it still is fairly logical (spelling aside, for many reasons), if skewed simply because it has become a hodge-podge of many different languages, especially having been spread across the globe and diverging in unique ways from there based on the culture using the language.
Japanese has been fairly insular by comparison, subject to only some foreign influence, a lot of which has occurred post WW2, so it naturally will be less complicated in that way, but yeah, coming from a Western perspective is really the only thing that makes it “difficult,” I feel. It’s just a different way of thinking. As you put it very well, the amount of variability in a language increases the amount of difficulty, and in comparison to English, or really, any language which has at any point in history has served as a wide-spread lingua franca (always a term that gives me a slight chuckle with the irony…), there is a lot more variability.
So yeah, that was a bit of a long ramble to essentially say, “Yep! I agree with you!”
Thanks to cure dolly I’m not fighting huge obstacles at finding them, I just think - is this the whole sentence? There are extra parts? Then, are there any conjunctions? If not, I try to individuate verb and subject (harder part) so I know where exactly ends the modifying clause
And german, I heard terrible things about it
One of the most entertaining things of learning this language so far has been to realize the differences from english and italian!
You know I appreciate information
Back to work
This sentence is quite disorientating, what is コレを?
あとは→ as for what’s left (to do)
ゆっくりと→here I guess it’s just ‘slowly’ with the と that makes it an adverb
The clue here is that the … is where he trails off without stating the verb.
This ゆっくりと is like “leisurely”, meaning to take one’s time doing something.
He’s going to return home, and then leisurely read the manga he bought.
Can’t believe once again it was this simple, so here the 帰る verb in the て form was just conjunction!
Panel 2, speech bubble 2
I think it’s the first time I encounter a verb in such a form followed by a particle, what is 見られ?
I guess the rest is これ→The thing he has put in the back
And the sentence is interrupted, so maybe the sentence means something like
“if this (これ) is seen (receptive of 見る), as for me I’m already…”
You have the right meaning, essentially. That is just the continuative form of the verb to allow it to connect to でも (“even”)
“If this is even seen, as for me I’m already…”