How you rearranged here makes perfect sense now, it was just me being little confident with the english translation of that word
勝負ってのは→ not sure, jisho says that ってのは is just ‘means’ , ‘is’ or ‘as for’ and I guess here it’s just a topic marker with some extra nominalization in it (if this makes sense). Not sure tho
公平なもの→a fair/impartial thing
だろう→i think/ I guess
I think I’m wrong somewhere but not sure
Context: Nishikata is complaining about the rules that Takagi-san chose for a 勝負
Chapter 3, Pg. 10
I think you’ve got it, basically, but I’m not sure because you didn’t put a full interpretation, just the individual pieces.
“The meaning of a match is (勝負ってのは) a fair thing (公平なもの), right!? (だろ)”
Again, the usual rhetorical だろ that is pretty common to Nishikata. ってのは is short for というのは, which is a grammar point in its own right.
If I were to put this into natural English, ignoring Japanese grammar:
“The match should be a fair thing, right!?”
I actually thought I did, when I wrote that yesterday I was a bit mind fired sorry
Most of my doubts were on the ってのは which i simply didn’t see as ‘meaning’ in the context, but how you put it it’s clear now!
Also now that I think of it, pretty much every って I saw til now apart from verb て form for godan verbs, was actually a contraction of という… isn’t it like that?
It’s not always a contraction of という, you also saw って as a casual と before (for example blablaって思う)
And there is also another って similar to は to set up a topic (日本語って難しいな)
Rightc, I had completely forgot about these two… anyway also when it sets topic I thought it still was という(こと or something) with という contracted and こと or whatever good to nominalize, implicit
Also, can we say that the って topic and the という are by far the most common?
Certainly for Nishikata, the topic marker and という are the most common uses, because of how he speaks. Speaking more generally, seeing it as a casual と is also very common, though. I see that all the time also. So I couldn’t really say that any of them are “most” common outside of the context of Nishikata’s speech.
Exactly what I was asking, could って even act as conditional と ?
I got it, I should expect everything then
Even tho sometimes I think about it and ask myself. To a japanese person, does this difference really exist?
Not sure what’s happening here, is Nishikata saying “yeah well, it’d be nice but it’s better not…” ?
EDIT: same page, first panel, 2° speech bubble
Nishikata says 先帰っててよ。 is he telling Takagi san to go back home before him? (先帰っていてください) ?
First time ending a chapter in less than 1 hour
(Took a pause after first question up here)
This sentence is confusing, not blaming Nishikata this time tho, Takagi-san pushed his IQ to the limit…
I don’t get anything of the first part, that やっぱり always confusing me and しょせん can be translated into three different ways that all look good in the context… The second part wasn’t difficult, it simply means “for caring, I seem an idiot” (more like “I feel like an idiot” tho, less literally)
Yes. I saw it acting as such fairly recently in 夜カフェ, so it’s definitely possible.
Chapter 4, Pg. 2
悪い is basically an apology sometimes. Kinda like when we say “My bad” in English.
I read the line as:
“No, it’s fine/I’m good (turning her down). Sorry.”
You have the 先帰ってて interpretation correct.
Chapter 4, Pg. 15
やっぱり = as expected; sure enough; just as one thought
しょせん = after all; in the end; anyway
“What the heck (なんだ)… As expected, it’s fortune telling, after all.”
Followed with the second sentence, which you interpreted correctly, he is basically saying that fortune-telling isn’t really expected to be accurate, so he feels like an idiot for getting worked up about the love fortune telling Takagi-san mentioned.
“It’s just fortune telling, as I expected.” Might be a better way to word it in English to get the nuance across.
Congratulations on a quick chapter finish!
Can I always go with this definition or the meaning can change? I had the impression that it can change its meaning depending on context
Rest is clear, thanks for the help!
I mean, pretty much all of the other definitions listed for やっぱり are fairly interrelated, they just might sound more or less natural in English depending on the context.
You should be fairly safe assuming the “as expected” phrasing. It works fairly well in pretty much all situations I have seen it used in.
The whole vibe behind やっぱり/やはり is that you had an initial thought/intention that may have been challenged by some outside influence, but in the end, things worked out such that your thought/intention remains unchanged.
Adding to this, definitions for やっぱり are basically:
There is no difference comparing before and now. (English example: “As expected, I’m still learning Japanese through comics [same as I was before, I still am now].”)
Your prediction came true. (English example: “As expected, I’m getting faster at reading this comic series [as I predicted would be the case].”)
You give a lot of thought to something, but in the end, the result is the same. (English example: “I considered different methods for learning Japanese, but sure enough reading comics is the best method for me.”)
The nuances differ but are interrelated.
I’d say this was pretty clear and I have no more doubts left. Also examples particularly appreciated
Hey all. Couldn’t find anyone else who asked this question, so could someone explain Takagi’s explanation of the game in page 13 of chapter 4? Link attached - Imgur: The magic of the Internet
I get the first 3 lines, but the 4th is ugh
Thanks in advance
I assume you mean this line:
1～3ずつ数字 = “The numbers between 1-3 at a time”
言ってって = 言っていく in て form and contracted
21言わなきゃならなくなったら = “If (you) have to say 21” (more literally: If you become to having to say 21")
負けって = to lose
やつ = person, essentially. This is being modified by everything precedes it.
So, to put the pieces together, in relatively natural English:
“(You) say numbers 1-3 at a time, and if (you) have to say 21, (you) are the person who loses.”
Sorry I still don’t get the 21言わなきゃならなくなったら.
My understanding is this:
21言わなきゃ = Have to say 21
ならなくなったら = ???
I just realized that “if” comes from たら and not なら… right? Idk I feel like I’m not understanding a grammar point I should’ve had down a while ago lol.
Edit: Is it a double negative?
No worries, I could have done a better job of breaking that down more specifically:
なければならない, contracted-> なきゃならない, then put into a connective form → なきゃならなく, な added so it can be connected to the ったら → なきゃならなくなったら
It is a double-negative, essentially, yes.
Awesome. Thanks for walking me through that, really helped a bunch. Now I know what I gotta work on tomorrow
So it’s not なる in たら conditional? I struggled with this sentence but in the end I thought I had made it
Also if it’s not なる, what is ったら the conditional of?