Teasing Master Takagi-san 😝 ・ Volume 4 Discussion Thread [Volume Complete]

When Person1 let/allow person2 to do something, then person1 is the cause of person2 actions, so the causative is the natural way to say Person1 let person2 do smth.

田中さんはは子供達に好きなだけアイスクリームを食べさせた。
Tanaka let his children eat as much ice cream as they liked.

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9.5.3

Can’t find the sense of this sentence :exploding_head:
西片が is the subject but Takagi-san is the one talking, and she says してくれる. So she’s the subject of the verb and is saying ‘do for me’ right?
西片がなんでもしてくれる→Nishikata does anything (one likes)
って言うならいいけど→I hope (someone) says

“I hope nishikata says he’ll do anything (for me)”?

EDIT: I think I got it
“If you say (literal quotation) 「I’ll do anything you ask」then it’s fine.”

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I didn’t think this way, so I guess in the example it’s Nishikata asking takagi san to cause himself taking a photo of her…
Edit: reading your example, I think I’m wrong… let me compute

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To me this example looks like a different thing, because the causative of eat is cause to eat, therefore the other party is eating, while the causative of take a photo is cause to take a photo, so shouldn’t be takagi-san the one taking a photo?
Unless how I guessed originally it’s takagi-san the subject of the causative verb

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Yes she is. She is the one doing the allowing and Nishikata is the one taking the picture, so she “causes” him to take a picture. Of course “cause” is a bit of an abstract way to explain, in practice it’s often “make someone do something” or “let someone do something”
So 写真を撮らせて(ください) is (please) let me take a picture.

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Clear enough.
It’s enough to consider that ‘to cause’ in this case is ‘to let do’ as you said and it becomes inuitive

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9.15.1

One question, is it ないで (ください) ? And then why it’s ないで and not なくて?

9.15.5.2

I think the verb is potential and the sentence means “I don’t know what I could say”
Context: Takagi told Nishi not to show anyone her pic, and this is his thought. I think he meant to say “how could I show this pic to anyone? How would I justify having it?”
There’s a fixed expression tho, わかったもんじゃない which means “there’s no knowing” or “there’s no telling”… what does this mean? It’s the first time I hear it

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It is the negative request form, yes.

As for why it’s not なくて, my understanding is that ないで is an odd grammar point. There are a number of theories about the etymology, and none of them work in every situation, so it’s essentially one of those “because that’s how it is” grammar points, and you will be spinning your wheels if you try to break it down.

You cannot use なくて for requests, and you can’t use ないで for something like じゃなくて. The only overlap seems to be in sentences that express a cause for emotion, per Wiktionary.

Overall, yeah, I know it’s not a satisfying answer, but that’s just the way it is. That is how ないで works, and it is best to memorize it and move on, imo.

It’s passive, not potential. Potential would be 言える.

“There is no telling (わかったもんじゃない) what will be said (implied: by whomever he shows) (何言われるか).”

More naturally, ignoring translating the grammar:

“I don’t know what they will say!”

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I blundered :ok_man: Makes sense, so he basically is still just worried about other people reactions if he showed it to someone

Aboht ないで and なくて… time will pass before I will be able to make some clarity on these two :joy:

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おまけ.1.2.1-2

I’m not able to understand the kanji and some kana in these couple of speech bubbles… tried to draw it on google tra slate but with scarce and unsure results

What is it written here?
I’m able to understand 早く二人○りできるようになればいい○
And
そしたら私におごらなくてよくなるのに
(This last one edited, I think I made it)

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おまけ Panel 1

早く二人りできるようになればいい

You have the second half of the speech bubble correct.

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おまけ.1.2.1-2

“I hope we’ll begin to be able to 二人乗り soon” ? There’s a grammar point, ようになる but I’m not sure

Not able to translate this one and not even break it down grammatically
そしたら→because then, and then, then (one of these is good I guess)
おごらなくてよくなる→?
Also can’t explain the のに. It’s for lamenting and surprise, but the previous sentence she expressed a hope, so what’s happening here?

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のに isn’t exclusively (or even mainly) for expressing lament/surprise. We see it a lot that way, sure, but at its core, のに is just “even though; in spite of; although”.

“It would be good if (ばいい) you reach the point (ようになる) that we can start riding together soon (早く二人乗りできる), even though (のに) if that is the case (そしたら), you will no longer have to frequently treat me (“buy me a drink” in context.) (おごらなくてよくなる).”

Breaking down the おごらなくてよくなる a little more:

おごる = to treat

なくなる = auxiliary verb meaning “to no longer occur”, technically an adverb + a verb construct (hence why なく becomes なくて to allow for a second adverb)

よく = adverb, inserted into the なくなる meaning “frequently”

Overall, she is saying that even though it means she won’t be getting treated to drinks as often, she still hopes he learns how to ride with two people on the bike soon.

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Brilliant explanation, I got everything but I have a small doubt, why you translated this part as “have to…”? Was it a free adaptation?

About なくなる, if I got it, it’s simply this exact grammar point bjt with extra space in the middle for another adverb (よく)…?
So I guess that the grammar point よくなる in this case is a whole another thing.
Also, i guess that the difference between the two is that while なくなる implies that something doesn’t occur never again, with なくてよくなる it just happens less frequently…?

Thanks for the help :raised_hands:

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Yes, that was a bit of free translation, because that’s how we would express it in English, but it would be more technically correct to say “you will no longer frequently treat me.”

I would say you have the difference correct, and yes よくなる would mean “to improve; to become better”, so it doesn’t apply here at all. Just happens to look similar. I am not sure I would describe なくなる or よくなる as grammar points, so much as just adverbs + a verb, to be honest, but that’s splitting hairs, really. I just am not sure if either would be listed as grammar. They are really just compound words, imo.

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If you’re ignorant enough, everything is a grammar point :wink:

All good here! Time to finish this bonus chapter and jump into the Volume 5 thread! :raised_hands:

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Get a room. :roll_eyes:

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Isn’t this おごらなくていい + なる?

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@MrGeneric what do you think of this

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I think that fits perfectly and better matches the English translation which felt most natural anyway. I like that much better!

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