Tae Kim is Korean

I found another interesting site called Kanshudo. I haven’t tried the paid stuff (no more subscriptions for me), but they have a searchable grammar dictionary with example sentences, and a bunch of games and exercises. Looks pretty cool. I’ve also looked up things on Wasabi and Imabi, but haven’t really compared in detail. They’re all good.

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I mean, the guy is called TAE KIM…

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To add a bit to what MegaZeroX said, I was meeting a (native) Japanese tutor for a long time who would use Tae Kim’s guide sometimes, but he would said that a lot of Kim’s examples were really weird. My tutor said he could tell he wasn’t a native speaker. That said, my tutor continued to use it as a resource, while correcting his examples lol. I stopped using Tae Kim on my own because I also felt it was oversimplified. However, I thought some of his lessons were good, like the one about nuances between different words for “you”, and だvsです. I think you should try it yourself and see if you like it - there’s no such thing as a perfect resource unfortunately since everyone learns a little differently.

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There are about a million free (and not free) Japanese grammar resources on the web. You kind of have to find the ones that work best for you.

Translation is always tricky, so even a native Japanese person (who also speaks English) might not be able to explain Japanese grammar effectively in English.

If I had to recommend one resource for beginners, I’m partial to Human Japanese though of course your mileage may vary.

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Tae Kim is Korea

Well, I made the experience, that native speakers usually do not know the grammar of their on language very well. I mean it’s totally fine to just be able to speak the language and know what is correct without knowing why. E.g. for me as a German, it is normal to get explained the grammar of my own mother language by foreigners, which needed to learn the grammar. (Btw, there are like thousands of details about German grammar I have no clue about. And that’s fine!)

For my learning style, TK’s Guide was the perfect choice! Honestly, I am not interested in investing too much time in grammar. From learning English, I knew that I need a certain amount of grammar to understand spoken language, but the rest will come over time. Therefore, I recorded podcasts of the TK’s Guide chapters and threw them on my mp3 player with my music. After half a year I was familiar enough with the basic and essential grammar, which is enough for me.

Ps: please keep in mind, that grammar is something, that should make your life easier. It tries to reduce the vast amount of spoken nonsense into structured rules, so you as a language student have an easier life. Imabi might be very, very correct, but it felt like torture for me :upside_down_face:

Pps: Nice to meet you! Have a nice time at WK :crabigator:

~T :lion:

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I thought I was the only one hopelessly confused by Tae Kim!

@ollylove I recommend checking out a couple of Cure Dolly’s videos and seeing if they work for you.

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Yikes, this is so disappointing (especially the alt account exchange wtf?) but also five years ago I suppose. Is he still around? His YouTube channel has been dead for years…

I’ve been using the Tae Kim path on Bunpro but watching lessons from Cure Dolly and Misa Ammo which has been helpful getting the basics down at least :sweat_smile:

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Absolutely true. In general, native speakers of a language don’t need to know the rules of grammar in order to speak correctly. For them, grammar is something they absorbed in babyhood while crawling around the kitchen floor without ever realizing it. It’s like how gravity existed before Newton discovered how it works.

(Although at least in the case of English, there are some grammar rules that don’t conform to the way people often speak; this discrepancy is a garden of delights for pedants.)

But for adult language learners, grammar does help you organize what you’re absorbing. Still, it’s probably better to learn like a baby if you’re still able to crawl around someone’s kitchen floor.

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Ooo, my favourite one is the order of adjectives. Adjectives have a specific order that’s almost always used in English - it’s why “little old lady” sounds normal, but “old little lady” just sounds weird. But, I don’t recall ever being taught that order. It’s just something I apparently picked up by osmosis.

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Yes! English speakers absolutely know this but were never taught, as a native speaker when I first saw this online it blew. my. mind. In my opinion, the goal of learning grammar is to be able to read and listen, and the goal of reading and listening is to actually understand how native speakers are using the language and be able to copy them.

That said, I absolutely would prefer grammar explanations, examples, etc. that are at least influenced by a native speaker when possible, if such a thing were available. I recently looked at the Wasabi grammar guide website, and they appear to have Japanese people on staff, so if that kind of thing is important to a person, then at least that resource is out there.

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Error: Non Sequitur

Research different resources and use whatever one works best for YOU. When you are just beginning your learning journey (whether that be a language or anything else) over simplifying can be a good thing if it helps you get the general idea of something. Often times teachers bombard beginners with so much information they feel overwhelmed. If you feel like Tae Kim’s guide is helping you build a foundation of knowledge to build upon then stick with it. :slight_smile:
Once you’ve gotten the basics down you’ll be able to use other more detailed and complex resources to increase your knowledge.

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Weirdly, as a second-language speaker, I never was taught that rule, either and still “feel” it. Might be because German is fairly similar in that regard so nobody saw a need to make it implicit. But generally, a lot of grammar understanding just comes from practice and exposure, even with non-native speakers that have had formal education on a language, I think.

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Yeah if you look up the actual rules you kinda wonder how anybody could learn all that. :joy:

That’s where I think there are some grammar rules that you won’t ever internalize unless you see them a million times.

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Same here.

Exactly.

My problem is people complaining about this stuff are often not technically incorrect in their criticisms, but they’re often not rooted in practicality. All beginner resources have to do is provide knowledge that will get you breaking down sentences on your own so input becomes more comprehensible at the start. Much like mnemonics, grammar explanations fade from memory and the only thing you’re left with is an intuitive understanding of how shit works (which is the goal).

Besides, saying that something is confusing is a pretty empty complaint on its own. Thats like…subjective yo

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Japanese grammar is basically the same as Korean grammar

[citation needed]

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citation here

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We have a discussion about it here:

I don’t disagree, but I also think that better resources have come out in the years since TK’s guide were written and they haven’t been getting as much exposure as they should.

And I also think it’s time to rethink our recommendations to new learners so that they can take advantage of our experiences.

I’ve been guilty myself of parroting the popular wisdom, but I just took a look at Pomax’s Guide and it’s pretty good and I’d never heard of it before.

I mean, I get the notion that “it was good enough for me so it should be good enough for you”, but I think I’d rather say “it was good enough for me years ago but here’s something better that’s come along since”. :smiley:

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Uhm, no.

Even a cursory glance at Korean grammar - Wikipedia will show you several features that Korean has and Japanese doesn’t, e. g. a subject-verb agreement and a future tense.

For the strong claim that “Japanese grammar is basically the same as Korean grammar”, I think it is fair to expect some kind of actual evidence and I generally think posting highly-questionable truisms in a forum aimed at language learners is not a very nice thing to do.

Now stop wasting my time.

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