@Jonapedia mentioned some intermediary textbook (not Tobira) which was written by someone in France (?) but not sure… I was searching previous threads but could not find the reference. Does anyone remember what textbook was it?
I’m finding 中級文法 very challenging since there are so many grammar constructs that seems to be quite similar and I’m not able to recall their differences. ( for example, しかない and わけにはいかない) Back in basic Japanese, there was only one way of saying something… Have you encountered this issue? How did you addressed it?
Yes that is the struggle of the higher level grammar. The more “advanced” a construct is, the more niche it seems to get. I found that understanding the nuance and circumstances under which each construct can be used was helpful. I use the Dictionary of Japanese Grammar series, monolingual dictionaries, or general internet to explain if the textbook is lacking. For me, lots of immersion also ingrains a better feel for the usage, compared to memorization which can be shallow at times.
The higher level grammar pretty much always duplicates some fundamental grammar but adds so nuance to it.
I’d recommend learning a couple template sentences for each grammar point.
Ideally try to find examples in the content you’re consuming, I think it sticks better.
Like with わけにはいかない I can imagine a hero who can’t give up because he’s responsible for the lives blah-blah… Anyway, it has a connotation of a strong moral obligation.
Btw, I don’t think I’ve see しかい grammar. Is that a typo?
Also, I’d highly recommend ShinKanzen master series. I think the explanations and examples are brilliant. AND it’s pretty consice too!
“Le japonais sans peine” éditions Assimil…
Authors are Catherine GARNIER and MORI Yoshiko.
It is 90 lessons in two volumes (and a third volume with the 926 kanji used, and the text of the lessons again but without furigana)
There are audio support for each lesson (but don’t know how they are delivered now; back then it was on CD).
For long it has been the only beginner level material in French (first edition in 1985). Assimil is an editor specialized in language learning.
In French also, but in a much higher level (aimed at university linguistics faculty) is "Manuel de japonais’ by professor 桑江邦夫 (KUWAE Kunio).
(The oldest version had all Japanese text written by hand and French typewritten… Japanese typesetting wasn’t available at French universities then)
Seconding this. Pick up their grammar books. Each chapter puts a bunch of similar grammar points together and points out their differences. Also, they are entirely in Japanese so you will be forced to read and comprehend the grammar in Japanese.
@sergiop Yup, what YanagiPablo mentioned are the ones I’ve heard of in French. Assimil is the one I usually recommend. However, I wouldn’t call it intermediate. It’s just that it covers some N4 and N3 material. It’s still below Tobira in terms of level.
People have already explained how this is simply what happens in higher level grammar, but, to offer a solution, I think みどり does a pretty good job of defining them:
As you can see, it gives quite a handy definition, also telling you that しかない can be conjugated like an い-adjective.
Of course, I’d recommend that you read a full article when first learning a grammar point so that you may gain a deeper understanding of it, but みどり offers a good refresher if you ever forget.
Here’s the link:
(If you’re not on iOS, I’m sure there are other dictionaries that offer similar definitions, so ask around).
I’d just like to point out that しかない is not an い-adjective, regardless of what Midori says. しか is a particle in its own right, and we know that it can be used with other negative forms like できない、言えない and いない (and frankly almost any other negative verb form). ない is an い-adjective that is considered a helper verb in traditional Japanese grammar. That’s about as far as the concept of an ‘い-adjective’ applies to this expression.
Valid point — and I have definitely tried to make a similar case in the past, but the way Japanese is taught, there are all sorts of things that they call ‘separate grammar’ which is, in reality, just conjugations and concaténations of already known grammar.
The point Midori is making is that ない can be conjugated like an い adjective I believe.
Yeah, I guess, but whatever it is, I just felt it was important to remember that しか has a function of its own, and that’s what’s in play here. In essence, I’d like to avoid (intentionally or otherwise) encouraging memorisation of monolithic structures without understanding why or how they work.
I’m studying with Tobira right now and sometimes it does feel like the grammar structures overlap a bit, but I hope that reading novels will make the various uses more obvious.
Also, some of them are very flexible and you can stack them, unless the resulting construct becomes awkward stylistically, like “trying to try”.
I definitely relate to this. I also struggle with grammar points that sound similar by have different meanings. I’ve actually found Youtube to be a huge help with this. Lots of people struggle with this so Youtubers will often make videos explaining the differences between similar grammar points. Hearing the differences explained by a real person with lots of examples always helps it stick more for me than by just reading a grammar explanation. If it’s really not sticking, I’ll try and watch a couple different videos on the same grammar point, read some written explanations, etc. Usually one of the explanations, or some combination of them, will help it click.
To put an optimistic spin on things, while grammar does get more and more niche as you study it, I feel like it starts turning into vocabulary, in a sense.
Like you can just throw the grammar into the sentence, same as a vocabulary word, so studying it can be really similar to studying vocab, unlike at the beginning when you’re learning stuff like conjugation, passive, causative-passive, etc. which is more complex.
You’re right that a lot of “grammar” is actually just usage, using the loose definition of whether you can look it up in a dictionary. I remember German grammar being much simpler to learn, essentially just consisting of conjugations like you say. But we wouldn’t be here if the fun of learning Japanese wasn’t worth the challenge, right?
