Short Grammar Questions

Japanese Language Grammar
#1723

部屋の外に子供達がいます。
There are children outside the room.

子供達は部屋の外にいます。
The children are outside of the room.

That’s what each sentence sounds like to me.

Children in the second sentence are the children, whose existence you acknowledge. Maybe you know them personally. Even if you don’t know them, you at least know there are kids around there.

What it matters in this sentence is the particle は and が (rather than word order), I think…as if I switch the order and say 子供達が部屋の外にいます。, it still sounds natural and its meaning remains as “There are children outside the room.”

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#1724

Thank you, this all makes sense and (as is the way of things) I’m not sure why I didn’t understand it before! You did a great job explaining it.

#1725

what%20is%20this%20character

Can someone please tell me what the first character is? I have never learnt it anywhere and not in my keyboard either. Such a funny character.

#1726

It’s 〆, read as しめ, and used as an abbreviation for 締め.

#1727

Thanks a lot :bouquet: ! I am so happy now it is finally solved !

#1728

Question - I have seen both “試して見る” AND “試す” as examples of how to say “to try”. What’s the difference? Especially curious because the first construction seems…redundant? Halp…

#1729

The meaning of 試す does already include the てみる idea of “try and see” within its definition, so you are correct that 試してみる is redundant.

But adding みる softens it and clarifies the speaker’s perspective on the attempt.

#1730

Can you clarify what you mean by “softens”? What does it mean that it “clarifies the speaker’s perspective on the attempt” Does it make me look very determined to try it, if I say it that way?

#1731

It makes you seem like you aren’t sure what is going to result from it, the same way that てみる implies when appended to other verbs.

When you go ask someone for help at the store, in English we would probably just say “Let’s go ask someone” but in Japanese you almost always hear 聞いてみる, because it shows that even if you ask you might not get the info you want. But that idea is already kind of implied by the idea of “ask” in the first place, so it’s slightly redundant, but it makes it clear that it’s a “try” and not a sure thing.

The Japanese tend to prefer things that sound less direct generally.

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#1732

Hmmmm, so saying “試す” is like saying I will try it, while “試してみる” is more akin to saying I want to try it but who knows? And in addition the “てみる” version might sound better to 日本人?

#1733

Yeah, basically.

Like I said, 試す already does contain the てみる within it (if you look at definitions in Japanese, they actually say やってみて) but yeah, they have a tendency to soften things whenever they can.

But I think we’re talking about the difference between “soft” and “a bit softer”

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#1734

As long as I don’t sound like the weirdo redundo 外人 I’m happy. And sounds like both work for my purposes. And you’ve clued me on some grammar nuances I didn’t understand before. Thank you :slight_smile:

Yotsubato Reading Help
#1735

Just realized … are you saying it’s better to use やってみて generally?

One last thought - after your feedback I think I could start seeing “てみる” as “I’ll see about”
As in, “I’ll see about trying that” might be an appropriate translation for “試してみる”

#1736

やってみて is just the dictionary definition of 試す. So it is not that one is better than the other.

#1737

So, say I’m in a restaurant. How do I order for other people at the table?

When I travelled to Japan last April, I went with a friend who basically had no head at all for Japanese, so I had to convey his order to waiters on his behalf. Generally I went with (gesture towards my friend) こちらは～～、（そして）私は～～ください or something like that, and I didn’t particularly notice any raised eyebrows or other quizzical looks, but is that the way to go about it?

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#1738

I can’t say what you did was weird, but often when I’ve went out with friends who ordered for the whole table, they didn’t even bother differentiating who is ordering what. They go down the list of what is wanted for the entire table. For example, ハンバーグ定食を１つ、シーザーサラダを２つ、ドリンクバーを３つください。以上。Or something like that.

Even if you do say “he’s having x, and I’m having y,” the people who drop off the food have no idea who gets what and usually the server will only print one bill for the entire table.

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#1739

I’m stuck with a translation. The japanese sentence is “どう見てもそうとしか”, I literally translate it to “Even if I looked in what way (?), it would only be that.” I have no idea what it could mean, thanks!

#1740

どう見ても is not “Even if I looked in what way” (I’m not sure what that would mean)

It’s “No matter how I look at it”
“Any way you look at it”
etc

#1741

Ran across this compound verb phrase that I was hoping to get some help with. Here is the text (context, coworkers are complaining about a worker who seems really spaced out):

そうよ。 いつも、ブツブツひとりごとをいっていてきいていたら、 訳のわからないセリフをしゃべっているの。

#1742

I believe that is 言いていて聞いていたら - continuous form of 言う and 聞く with the たら conditional