Bunpro provides direct links to both of those sites from the grammar point as readings. Just as an FYI.
Hey people I have a doubt.
So, in the textbook I’m using I came upon this two sentences.
あの時もっと一生懸命勉強していたら、合格していたでしょう。
この本を読んでいなかったら、作家になっていなかったでしょう。
I do get the meaning:
“If I had studied more back then, I would have passed”
“If I had not read this book, I never would hace become a writer”
But I do not get at all the usage of ていた. Why is it necessary to use the continuous て+いる in the past form, specially before the でしょう? I tried searching for it in many grammar resources but I can’t seem to find an answer.
Thank you so so much to all the kind people who answer,
ありがとう！
Gràcies!!!
Which specific usage of it? Or are you confused by why it’s used at all?
It’s not. The でしょう is performing a different function to the ている.
Maybe this link might help some?
https://www.imabi.net/teiru.htm
The first half just appears to be talking about a continuous action that had been happening in the past (the studying and reading the speaker had been doing) while the second clause talks about a result or a past experience.
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This maggie-sensei link also has a number of examples as well:
http://maggiesensei.com/2014/07/31/how-to-use-v＋ている-teiru-ています-teimasu/
There is also this comment where they talk about the form using なる like you see in the second sentence:
なっている describes the current state or how things are supposed to work.
なっていた You were supposed to do/something was supposed to happen in past but you didn’t/it didn’t happen.
And the part about passing the test falls under what they call the ‘past experiences’:
You can also talk about past experiences.
Ex. 日本語能力試験は去年受けて既に合格している。
= Nihongo nouryoku shiken wa kyonen ukete sudeni goukaku shiteiru.
= I took JLPT (Japanese Language Proficiency Test) last year and passed it already.
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どこ was the part of that sentence that was being tested, so there were no direct links for that usage of が.
I don’t remember seeing that usage explained when I looked at the links for the general usage of が. But I started Bunpro a long time ago and only recently took it back up, so I might just not remember it.
I’ll check it out.
Cheers
Edit:
I had a look. I’m following the Genki path, which doesn’t cover が until chapter 8 and I’ve only got parts of 4-5 in my learning queue, so I definitely hadn’t read the articles for が previously. I had a look at them and the one’s linked didn’t seem to cover this usage, but maybe they do and I just don’t understand this usage well enough to link it to the parts of the pages where they cover it…
Your reply makes whole situation even more ridiculous. Experinced people seem to have different answers. Japanese guy I mentioned earlier has his own answer and your jap friend’s answer is different from his. This language is… unbelievably difficult.
Thanks a lot for research.
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Thank you so much!
What I don’t get is why it wouldn’t be correct to just use the past. For example:
あの時もっと一生懸命勉強していたら、合格したでしょう。
この本を読まなかったら、作家になかったでしょう。
I guess that you do need to use ている in a past tense because it works as a “state of being” in the past (I am picking up this concept from the imabi page). The problem I have is that I don’t see “Having read that book” / “Having passed that exam” / “Having become a writer” as a state, I see it as a closed action, specially when it comes to passing an exam or becoming a writer (thus, why the “continous” / “state” verb ている in the past tense was so strange to me). I guess it is just a language thing but from the point of view of my native language it sounds so strange.
Thank you so much!
I’m currently reading a Japanese history book (for schoolchildren) and I’ve come across an interesting construction which is basically like:
誰かは何かをしたのです / でした。
While I understand the meaning of this construction, I wonder why the のです is there in the first place? Wouldn’t it be enough to say “。。。しました。” ? Or is this to emphasize the non-fictional nature of the text, i.e. that it is a report that this person did that thing?
Bonus question: Why is the first instance in present tense and the second one in past tense?
This source was helpful for me. The first comment basically says that ーていた is equivalent to the pluperfect. I’m not sure how technically correct that is, but it makes it easier to understand the usage.
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This is the use of の as an explanatory particle, as it’s used with です/でした. Read more about it here!
I’m not 100% sure, but I think this is one of those “both are grammatical correct, but this option sounds more natural in this context”, situation.
I found this 16-page PDF on のです/んです vs のでした/んでした, but it doesn’t seem to provide a clear answer. Maybe somebody here can provide a better answer? 
Thanks for the link, that’s very interesting!
So for the first sentence, I can see that it’s explanatory (he wanted to get the permit, so he mounted the train).
But for the second one, I’m struggling to see what the explanation would be; as it only states that during that train ride he discovered the seashell dump. What would be the fact here, and what the explanation? (Also, why is it in past tense? The link only covers present tense…)
Another data point. I showed your original post (just the manga panel) to a Japanese person who is an avid reader. She instantly recognizes the 童女and 祈事 part but said she had never seen before ものはゆげ and couldn’t guess the meaning.
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What is this のかい
努力のかいもむなしく、たからくじには当たらなかった。
In spite of his grueling efforts, he didn’t win the lottery.
WK 努力 example.
I’m assuming they’re putting emphasis on what had happened during that time. As in, they’re explaining specifically what happened when he found the cliff.
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In kanji this would be 努力の甲斐
努力の甲斐もむなしく
I have no justification for this whatsoever, but it feels to me like it’s making the distinction the singular event (finding the seashell dump) and the action that it occurred during (riding the train). Kind of like the ‘simple past in past progressive’ feeling you translated it to (I’m not sure what the correct term for this is).
Edit: Probably because it’s consistent with how ーているあいだに works.
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Of course among other things, what I desperately tried, was that I typed かい into Jisho but I still could not find the one kanji which would suit. But here it is.
Thanks!
Thank you very much, the PDF sounds interesting - will give it a thorough read tomorrow. Also thanks to @denzo for the explanation!
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Okay, this is hopefully my last stance on this topic, but I posed this question a little more openly to some other Japanese speakers/natives, and it seems like the initial impression of ものはゆげ is that it’s a typo. More than one person came back thinking it was actually おもはゆげ (面映げ), so this might actually be “an embarrassing young girl’s request” (“this request is a little embarrassing/shameful, but…” kind of nuance).
The only common thread is just that nobody thinks it’s “melancholy” or anything similar, so I’d love to hear the reasoning behind that interpretation too.
I can’t stop thinking about this I need closure and answers
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