Short Grammar Questions


#2245

Sure… but both of those interpretations hinge on the cooking being a favor being directed speaker -> boyfriend, yes? While the “for me” in your previous (correct?) translation implies that the favor is directed boyfriend -> speaker. Surely the direction of the favor is fairly unambiguous here?


#2246

The second interpretation is that the speaker is receiving the benefit of the boyfriend taking charge of the pot.
This isn’t unambiguous in English because we don’t have the equivalent of くれる/あげる/もらう. The sentence really just says that the boyfriend cooks and the speaker permits this to happen. Everything else is - in English - an inference.


#2247

I’ve been wondering about something for some time and guess this is the best place to ask.
I’m playing a VN with central theme a guy getting into the hooligan/delinquent world. Of course, the regularly used word here is 不良. One of the protagonist’s friends uses this word as well, this vocab being in the subtitles, but he doesn’t say ふりょう, but よからず (as in, the actual soundfile). I should note that in my perception that friend regularly uses less common idiom than other people.

よからず seems to be the zu-form of the adjective いい/よい. Trying to search further, I encountered a website that said よからず should only be used in combination with the に particle, but this particular person has used it in combination with both の and は. Example sentence: よからずのケンカに巻きこまれたって?(with of course the first word spoken like this, but written like 不良)

So I’m a bit confused and my questions are as follows: is よからず a rare reading of 不良? Are there restrictions in the use of the zu-form? Is this maybe a joke by the script writers?
Or am I missing something completely obvious?


#2248

Thanks for the thoughtful answer. If I can bother you once again, wouldn’t hazu datta make more sense for ‘should have come’?


#2249

No because they said 来ている. The coming was past tense, yes, but she should still be there, hence the いる.

Im not sure what the actual context is, so I’ll make one up to sorta explain this. のことだから tells us that coming 30 mins ago is sorta expected when specifically talking about 彼女. This could very well be because shes usually the kind of person to arrive first and make sure shes never late, so lets roll with that. MC shows up to the park on time where he was supposed to meet 彼女 but he cant find her. Hes basically saying two things with 30分前には来ているはず

  1. Since its her we’re talking about, you would expect that she arrived 30 mins early/prior to the time of him making that statement.

  2. It is expected that she is currently there somewhere at the park.

30分前には来ているはず does not necessarily imply that it is certain the person failed to show up early if at all. It’s possible that while she was waiting, she went to a vending machine or something. The speaker still has the expectation that she is there.

30分前には来ているはずだった would be for if it was certain that she didnt come 30 mins early and was not there.


#2250

Ah, I get it now, thanks!
By the way, the sentence is an exercise from Sou-matome N2 Grammar, so there’s no context and no translation provided. It’s actually about the のことだから part, so I got it right anyway, but I was stumped on the rest of the sentence nonetheless.


#2251

Hmm. Just to be sure I’m understanding you correctly here, you’re saying that the subject of the sentence (the boyfriend), as the person who does the くれる-ing, can be interpreted as being either the giver or the receiver of the benefit, in lieu of additional context?

Let’s take a simpler example, without the compound verb, in case that changes things. Let’s say we had:

彼氏がサンドウィッチをくれた。

If I’m understanding you correctly, this could be read as “My boyfriend gave me a sandwich,” or “I allowed my boyfriend to give me a sandwich,” right? But certainly not “My boyfriend was given a sandwich by me”?


#2252

No, if I’m not mistaken its actually coming from 良い which was conjugated to 良き when modifying nouns in classical japanese. They prolly just use 不良 to make it easier to understand.

良き -> 良くある -> 良かる (plain form) -> 良からず (negation).

You find that pattern in some words like 少なからず and 遠からず. ず form is usually followed by a に but it doesn’t have to be. Certain verbs that use ず and have been adapted as their own sorta words (like 知らず and 思わず) can be followed with の, but I dont know if I’ve seen words like this used with a の after them. Either way, its fair to say the character definitely talks in an unusual way.


#2253

Thank you for your response!

In my 2nd paragraph, I mentioned I was aware it came from 良い, although i didn’t explicitly mention the kanji. I’m glad that wasn’t a misinterpretation.

Judging from your last paragraph I’ll just assume it’s an anomaly in this particular product. The entire VN is written in a comedic style, so it’s very possible that there’s some joke going over my head.


#2254

I came across this passage in a book:

しかし、なによりも驚いたのは、子供を連れた若い母親が多いことだった。手をつないで歩いている姿もあれば、胸の前に布で赤子をぶら下げている光景も見られた。

And basically, I don’t get what the もあれば is supposed to mean in this context. I think the whole sentence means something like “There were mothers leading their children by the hand, and you could see others carrying infants in a cloth on their chest”?

But why is it conditional, why is it ある, not いる, does it mean something completely different? Is it a different verb?
Could someone enlighten me? :slight_smile:


#2255

Yeah, but you mentioned you thought that it was the ず form of 良い which technically doesn’t exist since ず is an auxiliary verb and can’t go on 良い. Just so we are clear, ある is the one being put into the ず form. Had it not been in plain form, it would be 良く+あらず.


#2256

Aもあれば…Bも is a common construction. It means, while there is A, there is also B. In this case, while there were some women walking holding hands with their kids, there were also some holding babies on their chest.


#2257

Thank you for the explanation! That was quick :slight_smile:


#2258

I was talking about the English translation, not the original Japanese… There’s no ambiguity with くれる. The speaker is being given something.

All I’m saying is that a translation can be loose without being ‘wrong.’ And even a translation that isn’t very loose will still often swap around the subjects and objects.


#2259

Excellent. That’s what I’ve been trying to confirm here.

Anyway, from a cursory Google search, this post hints at how くれる comes to suggest “let do”:

あげる and くれる are used on the premise that recipients will feel happy by means of giving something. Thus, if transactions may not result in any happiness, you cannot use them.

In other words, くれる implies that whatever is being given is being done so with the consent of the recipient. You can use it if you’re okay with your boyfriend taking over your cookpot, but not so much if he just did it without telling you and now you’re mad at him. So in that sense, you’re “letting” him do it. But you’re not becoming the subject of the sentence and taking an action to remove restraints against him doing it.

So as far as translation goes, I’ll accept that, while your “does it for me” is quite a bit better, phrasing like the original’s “let him” and my “he gets to” are valid—albeit loose and misleading—rather than just plain wrong.

And I’m sorry to belabor this point so. ~てくれる just shows up so often that I want to be sure I understand exactly what it implies.

Edit: Upon reflection, I think the official translation was written the way it was because 鍋奉行をする is tricky to represent as an active verb in English. So, not a great translation for illustrating the use of くれる, but reasonable for illustrating 奉行, which was their primary goal.


#2260

Japanese textbooks don’t tell you that, but once you start encountering Japanese in the wild, you will soon notice that Japanese people take a lot of liberties with kanji reading, both in manga and books.

I’m pretty sure よからず won’t appear as a reading for 不良 in any dictionary you ever check, but the author probably wanted to use that word because of the speech style of the character while still afraid the readers could not understand it (or simply thought too many hiragana in a row would make the sentence look ugly and hard to follow when printed) and chose to put the kanji there.

If you think about it, we are used to see furigana as a reading explanation for hard kanji, but the thing is Japanese people also use it the other way around. Kanji as a meaning explanation for hard hiragana/katakana words.

It’s very common on the names of special techniques, weapons or machines in fantasy manga. Usually the author wants to use a crazy katakana name because it sounds cool and all, but since Japanese readers might not get the meaning, they also put the kanji there to help.


#2261

Context: An airlines company made a mistake and sold tickets for free.

こういうのに一回乗ってみたいなって思いますけども
Translation: I’d like this to ride like this one time.

What’s going on here? I know のに to mean “in order to”, or “despite”. This usage is a little confusing.
I think this here is another case of this kind of のに, I don’t know how it fits based off what I know.
o

Also what is that なって doing?

I would be grateful for any assistance.


#2262

The の is simply replacing a noun in this case (I assume 飛行機 or something), and the に is from に乗る. こういう(noun)に乗ってみたい.
So just two particles doing their own thing.

In the picture you posted, the の is just nominalizing the verb before, so I feel like it’s a bit different.

And regarding the なって:
な is just a sentence ending particle, like 欲しいなあ or in this case みたいなー, and って functions as an informal と from と思う.


#2263

Thanks for your help!

Wow I didn’t even know の could be used this way. Is there a specific set instance when の is used to replace nouns or is this simply “you just have to feel the sentence”? の can really be a devil sometimes


#2264

This is a specific use case for の.
It’s like in 「どのドレスがいい?」「白いがいい」or simply 「白い
That way you can avoid having to use the same noun in your answer. Like in English, “the white one” where “one” replaces the noun you’re talking about.
If you google “の pronoun”, you should find some more resources explaining this further. :slight_smile: