# Short Grammar Questions (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Grammar\ **Created:** [July 24, 2022, 1:10pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863 "2022-07-24T13:10:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/original/4X/6/2/a/62a8b0f4c59ff2c5b6651ffcf43531480b3e5297.png) [@system](https://community.wanikani.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 1:10pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/1 "2022-07-24T13:10:40Z")
Continuing the discussion from [Short Grammar Questions (Part 1) - #10141 by ajdgaoigjaoirgjo](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-1/18002/10141). Previous discussions: - [Short Grammar Questions (Part 1)](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-1/18002) ---
**Author:** ![Redglare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/redglare/32/717152_2.png) [@Redglare](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Redglare)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 1:13pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/2 "2022-07-24T13:13:10Z")
That’s a lot of grammar discussion! ---
**Author:** ![anon9242278](https://cdck-file-uploads-global.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wanikanicommunity/original/3X/f/d/fd4c154120954695f788402f3bcf4e616499bc2d.png) [@anon9242278](https://community.wanikani.com/u/anon9242278)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 1:39pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/3 "2022-07-24T13:39:41Z")
👀 ---
**Author:** ![WeebPotato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/weebpotato/32/679291_2.png) [@WeebPotato](https://community.wanikani.com/u/WeebPotato)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 1:52pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/4 "2022-07-24T13:52:40Z")
What has just happened 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Redglare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/redglare/32/717152_2.png) [@Redglare](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Redglare)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 1:54pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/5 "2022-07-24T13:54:08Z")
There’s a 10k post cap on threads. When it is reached a new thread is made so discussion can continue ---
**Author:** ![ekg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/ekg/32/680984_2.png) [@ekg](https://community.wanikani.com/u/ekg)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 2:58pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/6 "2022-07-24T14:58:57Z")
Long live the Grammar (ro)bot overlords! ![3d8eb0434d64f81a461c61266b7fc20f](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/original/4X/1/b/4/1b4ba586d24932bbba34063e59af1d5a7f383689.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![anon9242278](https://cdck-file-uploads-global.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wanikanicommunity/original/3X/f/d/fd4c154120954695f788402f3bcf4e616499bc2d.png) [@anon9242278](https://community.wanikani.com/u/anon9242278)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 4:15pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/7 "2022-07-24T16:15:34Z")
We should merge the Short Grammar Questions and POLL threads 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Redglare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/redglare/32/717152_2.png) [@Redglare](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Redglare)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/8 "2022-07-24T17:23:52Z")
If only the Grammar Regulars would agree to that 😛 ---
**Author:** ![anon9242278](https://cdck-file-uploads-global.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wanikanicommunity/original/3X/f/d/fd4c154120954695f788402f3bcf4e616499bc2d.png) [@anon9242278](https://community.wanikani.com/u/anon9242278)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/9 "2022-07-24T17:29:40Z")
Do they really have to agree? 😏 We could creep in over time. They wouldn’t even know. Then, one day, they are us ---
**Author:** ![shookieTea](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/shookietea/32/591914_2.png) [@shookieTea](https://community.wanikani.com/u/shookieTea)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 7:48pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/10 "2022-07-24T19:48:46Z")
(I hope this is the right place to post this! 🙂) I’m a beginner who recently started reading the Pokémon Special manga. Early on, I found this sentence. Context is レッド just caught a Pokémon in front of some younger children. この町のポケモントレーナーで、おれにかなう奴はいない！ この町 : This town ポケモントレーナーで : Pokémon trainer かなう : In my power 奴 : Servant おれ : I いない : Less than Google translates this as “There is no Pokémon trainer in this town that can match me!” The translation makes sense in context, as this is him starting to narrate the beginning of the story. I can’t make sense of how we get there in Japanese. Best I can do is “This town’s Pokémon Trainers are less than me.” But, that doesn’t use 奴… Assistance is appreciated! ---
**Author:** ![alo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/alo/32/239506_2.png) [@alo](https://community.wanikani.com/u/alo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/11 "2022-07-24T19:59:48Z")
> [@shookieTea](#): > > 奴 : Servant The actual definition used here is “fellow, guy” > **[Jisho.org: Japanese Dictionary](https://jisho.org/word/%E5%A5%B4-1)** > > Powerful and easy-to-use online Japanese dictionary with words, kanji and example sentences. It’s a bit of an impolite way to refer to people, but here it’s the way Red talks. He’s trying to act tough. おれにかなうやつは - guys who can match me いない - there aren’t any (negative form of いる) Edit: Out of curiosity, what are you using to look up definitions? You may be better served by using Jisho for lookups and/or ichi.moe for sentence break downs. ---
**Author:** ![shookieTea](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/shookietea/32/591914_2.png) [@shookieTea](https://community.wanikani.com/u/shookieTea)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/12 "2022-07-24T20:34:25Z")
Thanks! That makes way more sense now. “Pokémon trainers in this town, there aren’t any (guys) that can match me!” この町のポケモントレーナーで : This town’s Pokémon Trainers おれにかなう : My match 奴は : Fellows; guys いない : There is not (negative of いる to be) > [@alo](#): > > Edit: Out of curiosity, what are you using to look up definitions? You may be better served by using Jisho for lookups and/or ichi.moe for sentence break downs. I’ve been using [Lorenzi's Jisho](https://jisho.hlorenzi.com/search/%E3%81%8A%E3%82%8C%E3%81%AB%E3%81%8B%E3%81%AA%E3%81%86%E5%A5%B4%E3%81%AF%E3%81%84%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84%EF%BC%81) so I can easily add new words to the built in study lists. It looks like I missed both Lorenzi & Jisho listing the negative form of いる for いない. In hindsight, いない being “less than” seems unlikely in context at the end of the sentence without an ending particle. I didn’t know about [ichi.moe](https://ichi.moe/cl/qr/?q=%E3%81%8A%E3%82%8C%E3%81%AB%E3%81%8B%E3%81%AA%E3%81%86%E5%A5%B4%E3%81%AF%E3%81%84%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84%EF%BC%81&r=htr) until now, but seems way easier to parse complete sentences than either Jisho. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Vanilla](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/vanilla/32/521468_2.png) [@Vanilla](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 9:58pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/13 "2022-07-24T21:58:47Z")
> [@shookieTea](#): > > おれにかなう : My match > [@shookieTea](#): > > かなう : In my power Kanau is 適う. Its a verb. It means to have the ability or strength to rival someone, as in you are on a similar level. に marks _who_ is being rivaled. おれにかなう means “to rival me”. Put that in front of a noun, やつ, and you are describing that noun. So: やつ who rivals me. That means “person who rivals me”. Slap on a はいない and it means that noun doesn’t exist. There is no one who rivals me. This towns pokemon trainersで gives the scope of who we are talking about. _Among_ the trainers in this town, _of all the_ trainers in this town, there is no one who can rival me. ---
**Author:** ![alo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/alo/32/239506_2.png) [@alo](https://community.wanikani.com/u/alo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 6:20am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/14 "2022-07-25T06:20:25Z")
> [@shookieTea](#): > > I didn’t know about [ichi.moe](https://ichi.moe/cl/qr/?q=%E3%81%8A%E3%82%8C%E3%81%AB%E3%81%8B%E3%81%AA%E3%81%86%E5%A5%B4%E3%81%AF%E3%81%84%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84%EF%BC%81&r=htr) until now, but seems way easier to parse complete sentences than either Jisho Yeah I’ve found ichi.moe to have one of the best parsers out there. I’m not sure why Lorenzo’s Jisho would rank やっこ higher than やつ for 奴 unless there’s an anime that skewed the results since it seems to pull from an anime/drama frequency list. ---
**Author:** ![scallions](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/scallions/32/510698_2.png) [@scallions](https://community.wanikani.com/u/scallions)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/15 "2022-07-25T19:23:21Z")
I have a question related to sentence parsing based on something I run into over and over again; What are the concrete rules to verbs preceding nouns? I know one, like if a past tense verb preceding a noun i.e 食べた人 meaning ‘person who ate’, but I’m more concerned with my confusion on when a nonpast&nonて form verb precedes a noun. My questions for this are; Are a verb and noun only separate from each other when て form is used, and can we safely assume any time a verb is preceding a noun, the noun is being modified by this verb? ---
**Author:** ![WeebPotato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/weebpotato/32/679291_2.png) [@WeebPotato](https://community.wanikani.com/u/WeebPotato)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/16 "2022-07-25T19:33:11Z")
> [@scallions](#): > > Are a verb and noun only separate from each other when て form is used, and can we safely assume any time a verb is preceding a noun, the noun is being modified by this verb? In books sometimes a comma is used instead, but that’s more “artistic license”. Usually if you see a verb before a noun, the verb describes the noun. I know you mentioned your question is a general one, but do you have a specific example that gives you trouble? ---
**Author:** ![scallions](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/scallions/32/510698_2.png) [@scallions](https://community.wanikani.com/u/scallions)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 7:37pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/17 "2022-07-25T19:37:17Z")
Thank you. I unfortunately don’t have an example. My question really just stemmed from a lack of confidence due to not ever having learned from any grammar resource on how this worked. Over time I had generally _assumed_ that the verb being the descriptor for nouns were the case, and really just wanted to turn my assumptions into concrete conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![potatonaught](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/potatonaught/32/393681_2.png) [@potatonaught](https://community.wanikani.com/u/potatonaught)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 7:39pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/18 "2022-07-25T19:39:47Z")
> [@scallions](#): > > What are the concrete rules to verbs preceding nouns? Verbs that modify nouns will be in plain form (past and non-past) [https://maggiesensei.com/2017/02/04/how-to-modify-a-noun-in-japanese/](https://maggiesensei.com/2017/02/04/how-to-modify-a-noun-in-japanese/) ---
**Author:** ![Vanilla](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/vanilla/32/521468_2.png) [@Vanilla](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 7:40pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/19 "2022-07-25T19:40:44Z")
Nouns or noun phrases, yes. Just making something up (not saying you’ll actually see something exactly like this) 彼が食べた私のリンゴ… Should be interpreted as “The apple beloinging to me that he ate…” Rather than me being the one being eaten. ---
**Author:** ![pm215](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/pm215/32/510099_2.png) [@pm215](https://community.wanikani.com/u/pm215)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 8:02pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863/20 "2022-07-25T20:02:39Z")
For a more formal description of sentence structures, look at the “Analyzing Sentences Accurately” chapter near the front of the Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese. This is for if you like exhaustive analyses of possibilities and aren’t alarmed by category names like “pre-verbal adverbials” 🙂 (If you only have the Basic volume, try the entry on ‘relative clauses’ and the appendix on extended sentential units, though I’m not a massive fan of the latter.) For a less formal, example-driven way to look at parsing sentences, see the last chapter of Jay Rubin’s Making Sense of Japanese. I think the method he advocates (starting at the beginning of the sentence and working the grammar out as you go along) is less confusing than the more formal “dissect the sentence to find the verb, subject, object, etc” process. But it’s helpful to have both approaches, and as usual with Rubin’s book there is an assumption that you’ve already worked through a textbook or similar approach and are then in need of the alternate take on a topic rather than the comprehensive from-scratch treatment. [Next page](https://community.wanikani.com/t/short-grammar-questions-part-2/57863.md?page=2)