Short Grammar Questions (Part 1)

Bunpro is another SRS, but for grammar. I can see why people don’t like it, because the explanations are very minial, but it keeps me on target because it works in small batches and gives instant feedback. Incidentally that’s a large part of what keeps me on track in the first place :smile: And it teaches me to recognise which grammar points exist at least, so I can learn more about them as I encounter them in manga and the like.

Though honestly, nothing really keeps me studying. I just get random bouts of obsessing over something for some amount of time, and then I lose interest. I picked up various forms of entertainment I can do in Japanese though, so that helps. And these forums do, of course - nothing gets me on a hyperfixated research binge as reliably as trying to answer a question does, so I end up learning a thing or two in the meantime :smile:

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I see. Thinking about it, something like wanikani lessons but with grammar points, would be the idwal when there is a struggle with prolonged focus

And Japanese noobs like me extremely appreciate it, I’d say!

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I agree, there’s no need to study keigo at this point as it can become quite complex. However you can treat these kinds of words just as vocabulary. It’s similar to how WK teaches you ちち/はは for father/mother. And they also teach you おとうさん and おかあさん without getting into the intricacies of honorific speech. But it sets the stage for later.

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With regards to WK, it’s not like you don’t learn anything keigo-related anyway. 申す and 召し上がる are both in there for instance. Individual words just give you a bit of a headstart.

Might be a bit awkward if you try to work them into casual conversation, but WK isn’t the most useful resource for daily use Japanese anyway. Even when you don’t count 河豚 :smile:

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It’s also the fourth musketeer of the こなた/そなた/あなた triad. :slightly_smiling_face:

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oho :eyes: TIL

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How does であると work in this sentence? Is Rinze saying she wanted to try this type of fun play because of Chiyoko? Based on the context that’s what it feels like she is saying, but I am not sure what part of her speech actually points to that? Or am I just overthinking it and the 智代子さんが。。。is the way she is indicating its because of Chiyoko?


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Were there any preceding lines? Without additional context I would think that Chiyoko is the subject of このようにして楽しむ, but I could be completely wrong. And my best guess for the であると is that the と is ということ, but again my confidence isn’t that high on this.

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Ah, yes, here are the lines that came before it

For more context, they were doing a test of courage at night in the school but Rinze was the only one missing. She came up behind them and scared them and when Chiyoko goes “Rinze-chan?!” there is when she realizes its not a ghost but rather Rinze.

I would say it’s the conditional と here and the later 智代子さんが is the other end of the conditional.

But even with more context I don’t see why Rinze would be enjoying it or looking forward to it and would then Chiyoko be tasty (? :joy:).

I have a guess that’s pretty close to @seanblue’s, but I need one more piece of information: is Rinze prone to speaking in plain-but-book-like sentences? That is, is she the sort to say 〜のだ or 〜のである when everyone else says 〜んだ, このような instead of こういう or こんな, では instead of じゃ and so on? Does she use seemingly casual but completely uncontracted speech a lot? (I’m basing this guess on はい instead of ええ or うん, このように and である.) If the answer is yes, then most likely, in my opinion, she’s just saying that Chiyoko is the one who ‘said this is a game that one enjoys like this’ (このようにして楽しむ……遊戯であると), with the verb 言う (or specifically the form 言った) being implied. Actually, for that matter, the fact that she’s using 遊戯 instead of 遊び or ゲーム makes me feel like she probably speaks that way. Does Rinze have a very serious, quiet image?

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Oh I should have mentioned that in my original post but yes, Rinze tends to speak more formally. She grew up in a traditional family and was a bit sheltered so her style of speach reflects that. Kind of makes her hard to understand at times since she doesn’t talk like anyone else.

With that, your explanation makes sense to me! Thank you for the help.

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She reminded me of Yukinoshita Yukino from Oregairu, and That Japanese Man Yuta made a comment about how Yukino speaks in the past, so that got me thinking. Yukino is also from a rich family and speaks formally, so they’re probably both examples of a particular archetype, though I’m sure there are personality differences at the individual level.

No problem! Glad it helped!

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Question

Watching cure dolly’s yt video she says that you can transform a verb into a noun by putting on the i-stem of the verb, so that you can therefore attach the particle に that only goes with names
In the example she takes かう and makes it into かい
I want to transform an Ichidan verb into it’s name-form. Is it enough to just drop the ~ru?
うちにケーキを食べに帰ります
I come back to home to eat cake
Correct?
(Let’s assume that there is a context in which this sentence is natural. I’d just like to know if it’s grammatically correct)

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Not sure where the “name-form” term came from so it’s probably better to think of a “verb stem” or the 〜ます form without the ます part since these appear in textbooks often. For example, in 総まとめ books it’s referred to as the マス形 (masu form) or the 連用形 (conjunctive form).

Yes, for ichidan verbs you drop the 〜る ending of the verb. I only ever saw 〜に来る and 〜に行く, but I think the above is grammatically correct.

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You mean - in combination with a verb+に?

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I also thought it looks a bit unusual, so I checked and found this article:

http://guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/polite#The_stem_of_verbs

It says

However, a useful grammar that works in general for stems of all verbs is using the stem as a target with a motion verb (almost always 「行く」 and 「来る」 in this case). This grammar means, “to go or to come to do [some verb]”.

So it seems to be okay to use it with 帰る as well.

@mariodesu Just make sure you understand that it does not only convert the verb into a noun; the に adds the notion of “in order to”.

On an unrelated note, you should really consider starting to read stuff as soon as possible as it will help you get a better grip on lots of the stuff that you are wondering about right now. E.g. the Absolute Beginners book club will start their pick next week; I think you would have a blast with that one! See here: Stories of the Japanese Prefectures (Absolute Beginner Book Club)

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Thank you for the suggestion, I totally missed that!

Oh I’d love to… I’m just not sure I’m at the necessary level. I was actually having a conversation with the mates of the takagi-san manga reading thread. It looks like it’s a mentally affordable first read. Have you read it? I also watch the anime and loved it, so there are two reasons to start from that (I already know what’s going on, love the anime and also have a support thread)

Edit: just realized that I’m going OT again. My fault, sorry

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Trust me, many participants are not at the necessary level when they start out with a book :joy_cat: But when they put in the effort and energy, they learn a lot in the process. It can be mind-blowing and overwhelming at times, but looking at your posts and your questions, I have a feeling that you can handle it.

I’m not so much into manga, so no, I haven’t read it. But if you know and like the story, then why not! The threads are there for you to explore and to ask more, as the people usually hang around and look out for late-comers even if the book club is over. It doesn’t really matter what you start out with, every path will lead you to more knowledge :+1:

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Thank you for the trust :grin: I’m really enjoying a lot every part of this process so I’m not really afraid of not making it or quitting for some reason. I love studying Japanese as much as I love putting it in practice. What makes me feel unconfident with starting a first read is that I’d like to jump on the book and understand at least 90% (at least, vocabulary and kanji wise) of what I’m reading. Is this nonsense?

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