šŸƒ Shenmue Tree - a Study "Lounge!" šŸ‚

@yamitenshi

So I decided to turn the kana back on while using Toriiā€¦ for now. Iā€™m just finding that being focused on 2 different SRS systems that are teaching me different things in the same way makes it hard to remember the Torii stuff because thatā€™s secondary. Iā€™ve only done 20 lessons so far and Iā€™m struggling with the reviews, so having the kana above the kanji is at least exposing me throughoutā€¦ I could feel differently and turn it back on soon, but Iā€™ll see how my retention is like this first!

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Understandable. In the end, youā€™ll still end up knowing the words, youā€™ll just have to associate the kanji with them later (which will happen anyway - thereā€™s a good chance youā€™re going to run into things like č²“ę–¹(恂ćŖ恟) at some point, which you know but maybe havenā€™t seen written like that).

And youā€™ll still have some of the recognition, because you still do see them kanji and all. Itā€™s just not going to be as thorough as when hiding the furigana.

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I completely agree and see your point. I think I just need to do the reviews more - Iā€™ve kind of been forgetting about Torii since I started using it, but Iā€™ll get in the habit. So many changes to my studying over the past few days Iā€™m a little overwhelmed :laughing:

PS. When would you recommend doing more lessons on Torii? When I start getting them to amateur? (assuming that is equivalent to guru)

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I didnā€™t have much of a schedule in it honestly, I just did 50 lessons a day until the reviews became too much, then I laid off it for a while, forgot about Torii, came back to 700+ reviews, raced someone else on the forum with a similar number to 0 (I won by a few seconds, didnā€™t take nearly as long as you might think), then did some more lessonsā€¦

My study schedule boils down to ā€œwhat even is a scheduleā€ :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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HAHA thatā€™s awesome! Well, Iā€™m going to get these first few down and then see how many lessons I feel comfortable adding. A couple Iā€™ve gotten I already know from WK.

And yes, I would like to get to the point of ā€œwhat even is a scheduleā€ too! Weā€™ll see if / when that happens :sweat_smile:

May I advise ā€œhella unmanaged ADHDā€? :joy: Works wonders. You might drop Japanese altogether for about 12 years though :sweat_smile:

If you can stick to a schedule without stressing yourself out, thatā€™s honestly a lot better. Iā€™ve been level 17 for three months now with no sign of leveling up anytime soon and this is staring me in the face when I go to my dashboardā€¦

image

I recommend something halfway resembling a schedule, or at least a routine :grimacing:

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EEK! Well, I think part of my problem is I need to stop worshiping WK as the benchmark in which I measure my progress. A lot of things will be teaching me, and although the fear of reviews piling up is there, I think if I just use what time I have to do them when they come up I may not stress as much.

I keep reading people saying you always want your apprentice pile around 100 or less, and I just donā€™t know if Iā€™ll be able to do that in the endā€¦ should I fear this as much as people say?

PS. at least you are already someone who has a vast knowledge of the Japanese language! :laughing: I feel like you can kind of ā€œmehā€ some things.

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Iā€™m flattered, reallyā€¦ but no, not by a long shot :rofl: Iā€™m still at the beginning of this journey, honestly. When i say you get a surprisingly long way with that basic foundation, I mean it - youā€™ll get to my level (not just WK level, but overall Japanese) a lot faster than you think and the mask will come falling off and youā€™ll realise I was a noob the whole time :joy:

Itā€™s a guideline. Do whatā€™s manageable for you - 100 apprentice items is a good starting point for a balance between speed and pacing, but if you find thatā€™s too much, stick to 80. Or 50. Or if you find you have a lot of time you could be spending on WK, up it to 150. Everybodyā€™s different.

Your apprentice count is a good indicator for your pacing though, and 100 items is a number that seems to work in general.

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Please do. WK and WK levels just donā€™t mean anything than time spent on this platform at the end of the day. Itā€™s way too common to see users who reach the end and say things like ā€œI want to reset and learn everything Iā€™ve forgottenā€ or ā€œI will go learn grammar because I struggle to read anything.ā€

Yes and no. Itā€™s a basically a metric for items you are learning which take up the bulk of review sessions and effort imo. If itā€™s too high youā€™re basically cramming with all of the pitfalls that come with it, but WK is more of a long haul study program so itā€™s a really bad idea to sustain a high apprentice count.

Also, the number is kind of arbitrary and just a popular pick in the community. You may need to adjust it for your needs. For example people who fast level will have 80 items in apprentice as a minimum. The 100 item limit wonā€™t give enough wiggle room for bad days, leech waves, or even just a tough level. I also think itā€™s a bit worse in the beginning (<= level 13) where there are a lot of radicals that inflate the numbers.

Eh, Iā€™d rate you higher. Not really a huge fan of the eternal beginner mindset in this context. Compared to the usual crowd working through Genki I and not really trying to consume native media Iā€™d say youā€™re in a great spot.

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HAHAHA yamitenshi = not noob! Did you have a Japanese foundation before you started WK? Or do you have this much knowledge at level 17? I would say that you must be a natural intellectual just based on your help and our conversations!!!

GOOD TO HEAR THIS! oh my goodness. I do have the time, I feel, to manage more than 100, but once I kept reading that 100 benchmark I felt I had to live up to it somehowā€¦ I need to STOP comparing myself to others :sweat_smile: (something I have a problem with in general).

Yes Iā€™ve noticed, at my levels, approximately 115 new lessons are given each level. Assuming you blast through the radicals, that could balance your leeches. Iā€™m trigger happy sometimes :laughing: (meaning I think I know something so well and hyper-type it into the answer, only to get it wrong and leech it! :sweat_smile:

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OMGOODNESS - this is so good to hear!!! Iā€™ve always respected those who reset after 60 - thatā€™s humility in this journey if Iā€™ve ever seen it. I think Iā€™ll just turn my level badge off so I donā€™t feel like others are judging me. Is there really any reason to keep it on other than pride? :laughing:

I see, I see. I donā€™t want to ā€œcramā€ too much to the point where I canā€™t retain what will keep me learning. I guess, at level 7, I just still have a lot of feeling out to doā€¦

I see about the radicals, and I agree with @yamitenshi that if I have enough time, I can allow the 100 mark to be higher than people say. Iā€™m not going to worry myself so much about this now, especially, as you call them, leech waves are definitely inevitable!

Thank you ccookf!!! :slight_smile:

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Anyone who is judging over WK level is being a huge di- I mean, uh, bad person. Everyone had to start from level 1 in the beginning regardless of their Japanese knowledge.

I think itā€™s fine either way if you want to leave it on or off. For some people itā€™s a reward to see the numbers go up over time, something like proof of our efforts. Others might use it to follow each otherā€™s progress (eg. Tokyo Skytree thread).

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Yeah when it comes to perspective on Wanikani, I kinda see it like this ā€“ people downplay the vocab you learn here for a good reason, but still, more words are more words and a basic familiarity with the ones here isnā€™t nothing. That aside though, kanji itself isā€¦ both completely necessary but also sorta the least important part of your Japanese learning, at least in the earlier stages. Want to get better at the spoken side of the language? Kanji literally doesnā€™t exist. And when it comes to reading, since furigana is a thing, kanji can also be pushed off to the future because, while they donā€™t match up perfectly, there is a sort of correlation between a textā€™s difficulty and if it will have furigana. Kanji is such a large undertaking Iā€™d advise learning it from the beginning, but as a sort of side project to everything else, unless you plan to really speed into materials without it. Itā€™s a sort of wall to particular material (and granted, that material is likeā€¦ pretty much any piece of writing made for adults, haha) but almost entirely irrelevant to your abilities when you arenā€™t trying to get into that material.

I recall feeling the same way as you when I joined the forums when it comes to levelsā€¦ and Iā€™ve seen enough level 60 people talking about how theyā€™re going to start trying to learn the grammar I did in month 2 or struggling to get into low level reading that Iā€™ve learned to disregard level, heh. Not that I mean any disrespect to them or smugness on my own part; WK takes up a big chunk of of time and all of this is tough. Just, you canā€™t assume level means much. Plus you have the people who just use the community and might be extremely good at the language while sitting between level 1-3.

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:slight_smile: so true, I donā€™t know why I think things like this. In graduate school I was too afraid to ask questions in class because I didnā€™t want to be judgedā€¦ probably trauma from my sorted high school days :laughing:

Yes I like the reward part. I will consider this as a statement to myself, not to others! And yes, I have connected with a bunch of you all and would like you to be able to see how I progress, at least in the WK way!

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Agreed! I have already encountered some crossover with Torii, so I know WK at least cares about common vocab.

HAHAHA whaaaaaa? Is that an onā€™ vs. kunā€™ kind of thing or something else??

This makes sense, and is really the only reason I can roughly understand whatā€™s going on in 悈恤恰ćØ! - I use ichi.moe first to see if I can get the meaning of a bubble, and if Iā€™m really confused I use the vol. 1 grammar guide!

I need to STOP SPEEDING - like seriously, itā€™s a bad habit. I would like to learn randomly as stuff comes up in WK or Torii or Yotsubato! or my verbs book or Cure Dolly or my particles book, etc. Itā€™s like mixing ingredients in a bowlā€¦

Oh yes Iā€™ve seen the low level ā€œdurtlesā€ - odd choice by WK to actually allow that kind of thing IMO, because it just encourages personal forum pride vs. ā€œhey, you can ask me a legit Japanese language questionā€ type of assistance. Anyway I know level doesnā€™t mean much, so I should stop caring so much how fast I can progress. This is all such a learning experience before the learning experience kind of thing! Thank you Daisoujou!!! :slight_smile:

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Oh, no, no! All I meant by that part is that since kanji is totally a writing system, there is an entire half to Japanese (speaking and listening) in which it plays absolutely zero part. Since theyā€™re all sound only. Kind of a self-evident statement but because kanji is so totally unlike what weā€™re used to as English speakers, sometimes people really fixate on it alone, so itā€™s worth keeping it in perspective like that.

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Ah I see. Is this why thereā€™s no ā€œaudioā€ in the Kanji (onā€™yomi) but always audio in the vocab? I could be way off on thisā€¦

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Well, that part comes from how kanji arenā€™t necessarily words on their own (except for the times a single kanji IS a word as well). I think what Iā€™m saying is so simple and kind of silly that youā€™re overthinking it because youā€™re expecting it to be more meaningful, but all I meant was, like, kanji doesnā€™t float out of a Japanese personā€™s mouth when they talk, haha. You shouldnā€™t try, but theoretically, you could be 100% fluent in speaking and understanding the sounds of Japanese but know 0 kanji.

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Definitely agree with this. I think itā€™s more useful to be realistic and balance oneā€™s learning ā€œdietā€. In the end WaniKani is just a tool and not the only one on the path to ę—„ęœ¬čŖžäøŠę‰‹ :smiley: .

From a broader, more meta perspective, I think it probably pays off more to work with native material more often and use Anki or something for SRSing vocab, rather than slamming kanji. After using WaniKani for nearly a year I have to say the kanji reviews eventually become a pain, because you have out-of-context characters and youā€™re supposed to assign that one word (which often doesnā€™t even work for a kanji) as an English meaning. For native understanding, thatā€™s not helpful.

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ā€œdietā€ I LIKE THAT! :smiley:

Ugh you are now causing me to question Torii once again. I just canā€™t get going with Ankiā€¦ Iā€™m also afraid I will only type in the onā€™ or kunā€™ reading and miss something in my flashcard process. Thatā€™s why I liked Koohi but it just seemed to be broken and not work for reviews in the endā€¦ am I wrong perhaps?

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