🍃 Shenmue Tree - a Study "Lounge!" 🍂

[anon33985902]

@ChristopherFritz

You’ll know already if you’re the type of person who does well with a textbook or not, so if you believe a textbook would be beneficial, definitely go for it.

To be perfectly honest, I already know textbooks are torture for me Little overview:

• High School: Read nothing for anything (failed French twice, almost didn’t graduate)
• College: Read nothing in my Spanish textbook (had to copy off my friends homework to pass by a hair)
• Graduate School: @Shenmue = social worker - a.k.a. research and reflection papers, no tests at all.

SO, test challenges, like WK and other SRS systems, are just against my being. That said, I am thoroughly surprised and encouraged by my dedication to this. Learning never stops, even about your own possibilities!

@ChristopherFritz

But if you’re unsure, it also doesn’t hurt to wait a bit and see what you can learn utilizing look-ups, Cure Dolly, and maybe a free online grammar resource such as Tae Kim or the impressively single-paged Sakubi.

Haven’t heard of Sakubi yet! I will check it out. I have also been putting off Tae Kim for some reason. Probably the self-study quiz… curse that thing now!!!

[anon33985902]

I just want to take a moment to THANK each and every one of you for helping me in so far along the way, especially in my journal. You are the 10 posters, and I am grateful for you. I am such a question-asker (when not in a classroom full of people), and you have been a wonderful part of my initial learning experience. @yamitenshi @ChristopherFritz @Daisoujou @TokeruKonkoyo @MagicalGrill @Belthazar @bakugames @ccookf @skatefriday @Beyond_Sleepy

TY, どうも, 有り難う, TY, お礼 TY!!!

[Daisoujou]

Excited to watch as you get better at this.

I’ll second what ChristopherFritz is saying – I think it’s shooting yourself in the foot if you don’t explicitly study a little grammar, but it absolutely doesn’t need to be from a textbook if you’d prefer for it not to be. Cure Dolly and online lookups are perfectly sufficient. Of course, he knows a lot more than me so there’s no reason for his comment to need my backing, but you haven’t been in the book clubs so you might not know that yet, hahaha.

[anon33985902]

I completely agree. How am I supposed to feel comfortable with anything if I don’t know even the slightest grammar? (not that I actually know it now, just reinforcing why I need to know it! I will likely need reminders and course-corrections throughout my journey, but I’m okay with that! We’ll see if I make it to level 7 tomorrow without any self-study quiz earlier in the day like I had planned

[neat_beans]

I don’t have much to add other than good luck! Video games were my introduction to Japan / Japanese as well, though if I had to specify a particular one it’d probably be Okami which I played when I was 13-14 - fully aware now that it’s a total hodgepodge of Japanese mythology and folklore.

As an avid game retrohead, I started collecting a load of retro stuff when I first arrived in Japan (about two years ago) to play as my Japanese improves - including, among other a things, a Dreamcast and a copy of Shenmue! I haven’t started it yet, but I’m looking forward to playing it before too long since I don’t think it’ll be too out of reach. I know of Yu Suzuki through his earlier arcade works and I’m aware this is considered his masterpiece - even if Shenmue III wasn’t so well-received…

[anon33985902]

@neat_beans

I don’t have much to add other than good luck! Video games were my introduction to Japan / Japanese as well, though if I had to specify a particular one it’d probably be Okami which I played when I was 13-14 - fully aware now that it’s a total hodgepodge of Japanese mythology and folklore.

Of course you have something to add! Everyone does (first person to say anything about a Dreamcast!!) START IT! I mean, I spent $400 on a customized Dreamcast to play the JP version or any other version, so at level 41 you can probably work your way through the JP version Yu Suzuki is amazing, and yes, he captivated many of us with his earlier work, but I would say the respect is the same and Shenmue III was just “patch” for things to continue

[neat_beans]

Oh don’t worry, I will before too long! I’m currently working through Skies of Arcadia (or rather, Eternal Arcadia) though and I think more than one RPG on the go at a time might be too much for my sieve-brain to handle.

It’ll be really interesting (and my first time) to play through an RPG with substantial voice-acting in Japanese. Doubly so for you who will be already used to the English dub; especially since the slightly surreal acting became such a strong part of the game’s identity in the west. And you get all of the product placement which was censored in the US version.

Also, bonus Outrun OST from one Yu Suzuki fan to another: Game Brass’s cover of Passing Breeze

[anon33985902]

@neat_beans

Skies of Arcadia (or rather, Eternal Arcadia) though and I think more than one RPG on the go at a time might be too much for my sieve-brain to handle.

WOW! Skies of Arcadia is my SECOND favorite Dreamcast game! I’ve played it through many times, the story is fantastic! However, they did give the rights to Nintendo and it was released with quite a bit more added content on the GameCube!

@neat_beans

It’ll be really interesting (and my first time) to play through an RPG with substantial voice-acting in Japanese. Doubly so for you who will be already used to the English dub; especially since the slightly surreal acting became such a strong part of the game’s identity in the west. And you get all of the product placement which was censored in the US version.

Yes that’s very true! I can’t wait for my Japanese Shenmue experience someday. I know many people who don’t know any Japanese still prefer the Japanese game with subtitles over the English. I, however, did grow up with English so I’m partial to it

HAHA yes, I never played any of his original works, but I did learn about them through Shenmue! I love that Ryo has a Sega Saturn in his house that was far from being released in 1986, but was the original platform where Yu Suzuki began development of Shenmue!

Another fun fact: Ryo’s TImex watch actually wasn’t developed until 1999 either, 13 years after 1986! The English version did have some product placement! (I own the watch, and they are very hard to find so it cost me more than I’d like to say! ).

[crmsnprincess89]

@anon33985902

Cool it with the self-study quiz: Yep, it was definitely taking up too much of my time, and really still concentrating my time and energy in the direction of WaniKani which, as was pointed out, already has a method of SRS learning that is efficient and effective. I ultimately think I was trying to be too controlling over my WK timeline. What true harm is done if I don’t get 98-100% of the reviews correct? It’s about progress, not perfection.

UM YOURE GETTING 98-100%s??? In my reviews (I do them in batches of 10) I’m ranging from 90% to 30%. And that’s ok, considering I’ve had 3 months to forget everything. If you get it wrong, you’ll get it right later. That’s my philosophy. I’m wanting to start writing down what I get wrong but it seems exhausting. Definitely cool it with the self study thing. No one’s perfect at language. I suck at English plenty sometimes

[yamitenshi]

Honestly unless you’re consistently getting less than, say, 80%-ish over large batches of reviews there’s no cause for concern.

And if you’re getting below that consistently, I’d look at doing fewer lessons, spacing out reviews and consuming more Japanese content over doing self-study to “cheat” the SRS, really.

[crmsnprincess89]

My problem is I took 3 months off and have forgotten large chunks of Japanese. I’m burning a ton of stuff though so I’m doing something right . Good perspective, I’d say 80% is good to shoot for.

[yamitenshi]

Yeah, long breaks do need a different approach. I’ve done that before and just took the drop in accuracy as it’ll correct over time, but I can see a use for self-study in that case. But taking a long break isn’t really using the SRS as intended anyway, so a little more not using it as intended isn’t gonna hurt

[anon33985902]

@crmsnprincess89

UM YOURE GETTING 98-100%s??? In my reviews (I do them in batches of 10) I’m ranging from 90% to 30%. And that’s ok, considering I’ve had 3 months to forget everything. If you get it wrong, you’ll get it right later. That’s my philosophy. I’m wanting to start writing down what I get wrong but it seems exhausting. Definitely cool it with the self study thing. No one’s perfect at language. I suck at English plenty sometimes

HAH yes, well, that number is about to drop as I stop using the self-study quiz all the time and pouring most my energy into WK! Because I was doing this, I was doing my reviews in full each time. I’m actually kind of excited to slow down and start getting things wrong again! And yes, I my need progress not perfection to take hold with Japanese, and I totally mess up my English all the time too!

[anon33985902]

@crmsnprincess89

@yamitenshi

Yeah, long breaks do need a different approach. I’ve done that before and just took the drop in accuracy as it’ll correct over time, but I can see a use for self-study in that case. But taking a long break isn’t really using the SRS as intended anyway, so a little more not using it as intended isn’t gonna hurt

I liked this idea from yesterday! Seems simple and helpful.

@bakugames

• a self-study setup for all my apprentice one items right after I finished my lessons. Doesn’t mess with SRS and can be pretty quick.
• self-study setup for all incorrect items in the last hour, which I also do right after a review session. Guarantees that you’re only seeing the correct items from that batch pretty much every time, and reinforces what you got wrong without messing with SRS. The time limit means that I can’t review items for two hours, which can be inconvenient but I found it’s for the best.

[yamitenshi]

I listened to a podcast by a Mormon who learned Japanese as part of their mission, and one quote from his teacher I found very profound:

It’s not without making 10,000 mistakes that you become fluent.

You need those mistakes. That’s how you learn. And that’s not to say making the same mistake over and over again is going to help you, or that you don’t need to work on things because messing up is good, but you need to be comfortable being wrong, because it’s a natural part of learning.

[anon33985902]

@yamitenshi

It’s not without making 10,000 mistakes that you become fluent.

This is beautiful. I’m going to post it on my wall. Thank you, I love quotes like this!

@yamitenshi

You need those mistakes. That’s how you learn. And that’s not to say making the same mistake over and over again is going to help you, or that you don’t need to work on things because messing up is good, but you need to be comfortable being wrong, because it’s a natural part of learning.

My perfectionist tendencies were definitely getting in the way, and I can see that now. I’m very relieved that I’m going to be putting on the brakes today for more fun time with other aspects of learning Japanese and making 10,000 mistakes! I got a cool book yesterday in the mail “The Handbook of Japanese Verbs.” I am loving it so far even though it’s pretty much a reference book, it has a million example sentences!

[anon33985902]

@bakugames

• a self-study setup for all my apprentice one items right after I finished my lessons. Doesn’t mess with SRS and can be pretty quick.
• self-study setup for all incorrect items in the last hour, which I also do right after a review session. Guarantees that you’re only seeing the correct items from that batch pretty much every time, and reinforces what you got wrong without messing with SRS. The time limit means that I can’t review items for two hours, which can be inconvenient but I found it’s for the best.

Okay I set this up and I’m going to be using your system now! I have a feeling I’m going to need the “Failed Last Review” a lot more now that I’m not going crazy with the self-study quizzing

[anon33985902]

Just another flashcard rant

Edit: Okay I think I’m going to try Torii SRS for a while with the 10k and see how it goes. I’ve heard good things about it. That way I can just just look kanji/vocab up in my reading and not have to input it into some sort of flashcard system while also learning common vocab that I might know by the time I encounter it. Do any of you have experience/thoughts with using Torii SRS 10k? @yamitenshi @ChristopherFritz @Daisoujou @crmsnprincess89 @Belthazar

I was hoping koohi.cafe was the answer for me, but it doesn’t appear to be. I think the site either isn’t set up fully yet or doesn’t do what I need it to. I created the vocab I wanted to study, and I did the initial lessons, but now it won’t let me review anything under my “now” section. I assumed this meant “ready to review now” as there’s another section called “soon,” but I can’t review anything…

Then I opened my AnkiDroid app on my chromebook, and it’s just way too messy to use.

Then I went to Kitsun and tried to convince myself it’s worth the $8 a month. Their site looks and feels great, but I couldn’t convince myself.

Then I went to my Shirabe Jisho app on my phone, which has a flashcard function too, but it just didn’t have the right feel.

Then I opened up my Torii SRS android app on my chromebook. Since it hasn’t been adapted to a computer screen, it’s like I’m staring at a phone on my computer!

Then I decided I needed to go make my sushi rice and clear my brain

[yamitenshi]

@anon33985902

Do any of you have experience/thoughts with using Torii SRS 10k?

Yeah, I have only good things to say about it really.

A few tips:

• You can set Torii to hide furigana by default for reviews (showing only ----- above the kanji for a word). I think this is the Hide Kana setting under Reviews (make sure it’s enabled). I recommend trying to get a word by kanji alone, even if they’re kanji you don’t know via WK yet, but if you don’t know it from kanji alone there’s nothing wrong with checking the furigana. You can do that by clicking on the ----- where they should be.
• Lightning mode is very useful, IMO, and really speeds up reviews
• Hyperjump mode is something I personally avoided, because I want to be wrong if I type too much too, even if the beginning of what I wrote is correct
• Add synonyms generously. You’ll see them in your reviews as well when asked for the meaning of a word, which can be useful if for instance WaniKani has taught you a different meaning, or there’s something that sets a word apart from what otherwise might seem a synonym. Just be sure not to cheat with it, but that’s up to you
• Don’t bother learning more than about 2000 words via Torii. You should really be learning vocab from the material you consume by that point, and probably before it.

[anon33985902]

@yamitenshi

I recommend trying to get a word by kanji alone, even if they’re kanji you don’t know via WK yet

Got it, and I just turned it off for both lessons and reviews!

@yamitenshi

Lightning mode is very useful, IMO, and really speeds up reviews

That just makes it so you don’t have to press enter, right?

@yamitenshi

Hyperjump mode is something I personally avoided, because I want to be wrong if I type too much too, even if the beginning of what I wrote is correct

Yes I would also like to avoid getting stuff right if I shouldn’t be!

@yamitenshi

Add synonyms generously.

HAHA okay, I will do this. Synonyms I know are going to get harder as I progress. Like the kanji for “arrive” can also mean “wear / don” and be a counter for suits? Ugh…

@yamitenshi

Don’t bother learning more than about 2000 words via Torii. You should really be learning vocab from the material you consume by that point, and probably before it.

Oooo excellent. I do have a vague memory of you saying that you preferred Torii, and now I know even more about why!

Hopefully this method of learning common words sticks with me. I’m tired of bouncing all over the place!