🍃 Shenmue Tree - a Study "Lounge!" 🍂

[anon33985902]

@sycamore

it doesn’t really matter that much (in my opinion at least) if you find the 100% most effective method - if you find something that works alright for you for the moment then go for it. Worst thing that can happen is that in maybe a few months you find something better or change your mind about what works for you - but something like Torii is a free tool so the worst that will come out of that is that you will have learned some common words which is always good

Very good point! At first I just didn’t like how it is like an Android phone screen on my Chromebook, but It’s actually not that bad now that I’ve started using it. I like that it is going to throw stuff at me that I might just encounter while reading and get excited!

@sycamore

I actually used Torii for a while before I moved to Jalup (which is great but unfortunately expensive if you can’t get a discount) and found it pretty decent - as @yamitenshi says you’ll probably only want to use it for the first 2k words or something anyway.

Ah yeah… expensive I will look at Jalup but probably not go that route as I really like free resources, only 1 WK subscription, and books when I want to get away from the computer!

@sycamore

as @yamitenshi says you’ll probably only want to use it for the first 2k words or something anyway.

Yes, this is good news! I know this will take a while all the same, but I really want to get to the point where trudging through reading isn’t trudging so much anymore! Don’t get me wrong, even trudging right now is really fun for me

@sycamore

Another option for once you move past those first 2k if koohi isn’t working for you and anki seems like too complex to set up is: https://jpdb.io/ - it’s pretty similar to koohi (though lacks some of the features I think) in that it has decks from a lot of different Japanese media so you can look up something you want to read or watch and learn from that. I used it for a bit but stupidly got too excited and added way way too many words and then panicked and ran away from the SRS avalanche hahah. But if you can have more self control than me it’s really good!

HAHA oh no! Well, I will also look into this! But perhaps I need a “pick a color and stick with it” kind of mentality. Too many options can keep me second guessing myself! The thing I loved about Koohi was that it acted as a dictionary. My Japanese keyboard found the kanji from the furigana most of the time right away, so I just put it in and it was good to go. Then, I discovered today that their review system really isn’t functioning? At least I couldn’t get it to. However, I’m kind of glad because Torii requires no input on my end and that’s definitely a time saver!

Thanks for joining in on the conversation and your suggestions are very well taken!!!

[sycamore]

@anon33985902

Too many options can keep me second guessing myself! The thing I loved about Koohi was that it acted as a dictionary.

This one is also a dictionary! But yeah, I think learning those most common 2k probably makes sense regardless so it’s more one to think about after that haha.

[anon33985902]

@sycamore

This one is also a dictionary! But yeah, I think learning those most common 2k probably makes sense regardless so it’s more one to think about after that haha.

I will definitely check them both out! Right now I need to go make my sushi before reviews in 25 minutes!

[anon33985902]

Yay for level 7

111 lessons begin tomorrow. I say begin because I am slowing down! Before I would have tortured myself tonight with all 111 lessons just to make sure I got them into the review pile. I think I will use the lesson ordering script to do the radicals and kanji tomorrow, that should be 34 lessons. Then maybe start the vocab from lesson 5 the next day? I’m curious about how I might pace myself better now that my whole strategy has changed…

I read two more pages of よつばと! tonight, began Torii SRS, began my new vocabulary book, and ate sushi twice today (per usual ) I might watch (or re-watch) a Cure Dolly before bed, but I feel accomplished already!

Thanks to everyone for the help as always!

[Daisoujou]

Since you’re thinking about reordering and generally how to approach this stuff, here’s some info which may or may not help you: Even if you’re going at max rate, the only thing you need to do right away are the radicals, because a level up is going to be gated by finishing the second cluster of unlocked kanji, so the first kanji can wait a day or two. I go… not at literal max rate because I only do 2 review sessions a day and don’t want to bother catching the third time, but I’ve done a lot of levels at 8 days per now, which is on the fast end, and even while doing that, I prefer not to group all kanji together in one day. I don’t use the reorder, so I get hit with a wall of 30-40 vocab on level up days to dig to the radicals, probably suboptimal but it doesn’t bother me too much. Then I usually do the kanji in two sessions the next two days, maybe with a bit of vocab tacked at the end.

I mention my own method just to say, even if you were speed running, there’s always the option to spread the kanji a little. For most people (again, the kind of thing you can tailor to what you notice about yourself), the kanji is a little more demanding, so they prefer to space them more. When you’re reordering, depending on how slow you want to go, I know some people who will do a daily small chunk of kanji mixed with vocab, or something like that. Or maybe you’ll find this exact method works for you – just wanted to mention it’s totally viable to split the kanji into a few separate days, and that it seems to be a thing commonly preferred. Once you get accustomed to Wanikani’s level pacing you can better work out how long you want to spend per level and how soon you need to knock out kanji to make that happen.

Congrats on all the accomplishments, too! I just finished dragging myself through a few pages of something as well… for quite a long time, you speed up the treadmill, but the process of slowly inching forward stays the same haha.

[anon33985902]

@Daisoujou

so the first kanji can wait a day or two. I go… not at literal max rate because I only do 2 review sessions a day and don’t want to bother catching the third time

This is logic I had not thought of! I love it!!!

@Daisoujou

I prefer not to group all kanji together in one day. I don’t use the reorder, so I get hit with a wall of 30-40 vocab on level up days to dig to the radicals, probably suboptimal but it doesn’t bother me too much.

Hmm yes I can see this too. Before my strategy was to dump at least 90% of Radicals + Kanji cluster 1 + Vocab cluster 1 from my reviews after the first 3 days… ultimately it resulted in less review sessions that required much more review time, and a huge amount of lessons all at once that required quite a bit of time and brain exhaustion

@Daisoujou

I mention my own method just to say, even if you were speed running, there’s always the option to spread the kanji a little.

I had never thought of this idea at all! So glad you mentioned it.

@Daisoujou

the kanji is a little more demanding

Yup, completely agree!!!

@Daisoujou

Once you get accustomed to Wanikani’s level pacing you can better work out how long you want to spend per level and how soon you need to knock out kanji to make that happen.

Yeah I can see myself needing to get a feel for this now, but I’m totally going to start doing it.

@Daisoujou

the process of slowly inching forward stays the same haha.

And as you and others have pointed out - I want to maximize my learning during that “treadmill” time

お礼 as always, Daisoujou!

[anon33985902]

Hmm, question about Torii SRS @yamitenshi

I just did my first batch of reviews, and I noticed that it only asked me for the meanings for them all and not to type in the kana for things like WK does. Is this what you meant by identifying all the Kanji by meaning alone? Or did I screw up my settings somehow?

[yamitenshi]

Below the review button, you have a selection for either JP→EN (which you probably had selected), EN→JP, or JP⇄EN (which is what you want, probably)

You should see reviews pop up when you select either EN→JP or JP⇄EN

[anon33985902]

Almost tooooo obvious.

[ccookf]

This is exactly how I use it as well, although I take a bit longer. Maybe 20 minutes a day? Part of it is that I like to delay the SSQ after lessons by a couple minutes. It’s something of a habit when I used to use an extra 1 and 10 ten minute interval in Anki (I think that might have been the default, but it has been like a decade since then). I wouldn’t really consider it cheating the SRS since really it’s just reinforcing things that have reverted into a learning state. However, I’d agree with yamitenshi that reading is the best overall if you can do it.

The one exception is something is leech review, which I do occasionally (no more than once a week). I pick a more conservative option, so even even this doesn’t take too long. Maybe a half hour if I feel like it (but really, it’s a weekend so I’ve probably opened a silly cat video halfway through the session).

The handbook of japanese verbs sounds nifty. I’m a huge fan of example sentences and it’s why I’m a massive Bunpro shill. It’s a real shame they don’t seem to have a digital version of this book.

@anon33985902

Do any of you have experience/thoughts with using Torii SRS 10k?

Uh, if you want a WK like experience it’s pretty good. It has a lot of common functionality built in including a font randomizer which I thought was really nice. However, I totally hated it lol. Nothing against Torii, it’s just that I use other platforms that integrate well with mining/word lists. In that regard I’d say even using Anki is better, especially for people who want to mine vocab out of their own texts.

I started a version of the 10k on Kitsun, but I dropped it in favor of going through an N5 and N4 wordlist (roughly 1k+ common words). I do agree with the 2k sentiment and think that’s probably the best for most cases. Realistically everyone has their own niche in terms of content and doing your own mining or using a specialized word list like koohi offers will get people there at a better timing.

If you have no interest in mining I’d say Torii and Koohi are the best. Otherwise Anki or Kitsun are way better. Since three of those are already out just go for it you already are. Uh, have some more validation. The others have covered the key points and by the time you finish the first one or two thousand words you’ll be in a much better position to decide the best methods moving forwards. It’s going to vary for each person.

@Daisoujou

When you’re reordering, depending on how slow you want to go, I know some people who will do a daily small chunk of kanji mixed with vocab, or something like that.

This is what I do and it’s absolutely wonderful from a consistency standpoint. Seanblue’s lesson filter script is minimally invasive approach to this that plays somewhat nicely with WK’s ordering. The pace I’m using now up to 5 kanji a day which tends to get my level up around day 10. Bumping it up to 6 or 7 would be enough to hit the max speed on most levels. It’s waaaay easier than trying to cram them all at once (insert rant on WKs frustrating level structure here).

[anon33985902]

@ccookf

Part of it is that I like to delay the SSQ after lessons by a couple minutes. It’s something of a habit when I used to use an extra 1 and 10 ten minute interval

Oh yeah this sounds like a good plan. I already did a SSQ for the 17 radicals I did this morning, and the first review is in about 45 minutes!

@ccookf

However, I’d agree with yamitenshi that reading is the best overall if you can do it.

Reading is definitely the favorite part of my day now that I have a little system in place! Even if I only get 2 pages of Yotsubato!, it feels great. I am liking the low pressure Torii SRS so far too, just to pick up common kanji/vocab here and there.

@ccookf

The one exception is something is leech review, which I do occasionally (no more than once a week). I pick a more conservative option, so even even this doesn’t take too long. Maybe a half hour if I feel like it (but really, it’s a weekend so I’ve probably opened a silly cat video halfway through the session).

Haha! Yeah because of how intensely I was using the SSQ, I didn’t have many leeches to do a SSQ of those. I will remember that as I inevitably get more leeches.

@ccookf

The handbook of japanese verbs sounds nifty. I’m a huge fan of example sentences and it’s why I’m a massive Bunpro shill. It’s a real shame they don’t seem to have a digital version of this book.

Yeah I just happened across the book recommendation on Amazon and felt it was worth the chance. So far it’s breaking down all aspects of verbs in the introduction, and is filled to the brim with example sentences. Personally I love physical books, and especially after staring at a screen most of the day it’s nice to lay back and open a book!

@ccookf

it’s just that I use other platforms that integrate well with mining/word lists. In that regard I’d say even using Anki is better, especially for people who want to mine vocab out of their own texts.

See, I thought this is what I wanted to do, but I’m actually glad I don’t have to take the time in my day to mine sentences and input them into a flash card system. With Torii I know that I’m getting words that WK may or may not teach, and I think it will pair nicely with reading being a method of learning - perhaps I’ll run across some stuff that I know ahead of time thanks to Torii, as opposed to not knowing it and always having to look up everything and quiz myself on it! This is just my initial thought process anyway.

@ccookf

I do agree with the 2k sentiment and think that’s probably the best for most cases. Realistically everyone has their own niche in terms of content and doing your own mining or using a specialized word list like koohi offers will get people there at a better timing.

Glad you also agree with the 2000 words idea! I really liked the feel of koohi for mining sentences, but their review system seemed to be broken, and after 10 minutes of figuring it out I began considering other options again…

@ccookf

Seanblue’s lesson filter script is minimally invasive approach to this that plays somewhat nicely with WK’s ordering

I’m not sure if I have seanblue’s script or another one, but mine works kinda funky in that if there’s 17 radical lessons and the batch size is 5, after the first 15 you have 2 radicals left and it will give you 3 of the others. I don’t know how to just stop it and quiz

Thank you VERY much for taking the time to add your thoughts and spin on everything! This is all extremely helpful

[ccookf]

@anon33985902

I’m not sure if I have seanblue’s script or another one, but mine works kinda funky in that if there’s 17 radical lessons and the batch size is 5, after the first 15 you have 2 radicals left and it will give you 3 of the others. I don’t know how to just stop it and quiz

Sounds about right, I think his script is the only one that does the batch size alteration. Are trying to do radicals + kanji + vocab in the same session? If so I don’t think there’s a way around them mixing when the batch size is not a factor of the items per category.

However, if you’re willing to break them up into multiple lesson sessions then you could do session 1 with a setting like batch size 5, radicals 17, kanji 0, vocab 0 which should give you 4 quizzes, three with 5 items and one with 2 items. Then do any other items in a second session.

It’s awkward when I think about it, but I’m not sure there’s a good way to circumvent the issue in a browser environment. Maybe one of the apps, but I’m not too familiar with them.

[anon33985902]

@ccookf

Are trying to do radicals + kanji + vocab in the same session? If so I don’t think there’s a way around them mixing when the batch size is not a factor of the items per category.

Hmmm yes I couldn’t figure it out. If it randomly selected a vocab for the first item, it would keep that item and then put the kanji for the next ones after it. I guess it’s probably just my OCD haha, but I just wanted to do all radicals, then all kanji, then all vocab.

@ccookf

However, if you’re willing to break them up into multiple lesson sessions then you could do session 1 with a setting like batch size 5, radicals 17, kanji 0, vocab 0 which should give you 4 quizzes, three with 5 items and one with 2 items. Then do any other items in a second session.

I just wasn’t quite sure how to set it up like this… I must have been doing something wrong

@ccookf

It’s awkward when I think about it, but I’m not sure there’s a good way to circumvent the issue in a browser environment. Maybe one of the apps, but I’m not too familiar with them.

Yeah it’s no big deal. This is the first time I’m doing things like this at a slowed pace, so I’m a little on edge about not making a mistake I can’t go back on!

Thanks for your help in this though!!

[anon33985902]

@crmsnprincess89

Oh boy, today did not go as planned I’m exhausted so I may have to cut out a goal or two. I hope I have enough brain power to get through 2 pages of Yotusbato tonight, but if I get through one I’ll be happy.

[crmsnprincess89]

I’m sorry to hear that!! If you want to talk more about it, you know where to find me. Don’t be afraid to be kind to yourself, we can’t always do all the things on all the days. Someone in my study log thread said to plan out your goals based on what you can do on a bad day, not a good day and I thought that was really helpful advice! Take care!

[anon33985902]

@crmsnprincess89

I’m sorry to hear that!! If you want to talk more about it, you know where to find me. Don’t be afraid to be kind to yourself, we can’t always do all the things on all the days. Someone in my study log thread said to plan out your goals based on what you can do on a bad day, not a good day and I thought that was really helpful advice! Take care!

Thank you! It’s okay I’m healthy and so are my loved ones. I would be happy to share/vent my happenings to you, I just feel like expressing my “personal stuff” for all those to see is weird I don’t think there’s any other way here on WK forums tho.

I WILL take your quote and run with it, about bad days and good days. Your advice is always GOOD. Talk to ya tomorrow!

[anon33985902]

So far this slower pace seems interesting! My radicals are projected to get to Apprentice IV tonight, my level 7 kanji are a mess but I did them all And I did half of my level 6 & 7 vocab this morning, so I’m trying to figure out when to do the other half. A problem I face, because I was so accurate with my last two levels, is that I have some big batches of reviews clumped together coming up. I’m sure I’ll get some wrong and they will space out a little though!

[anon33985902]

@yamitenshi

So I decided to turn the kana back on while using Torii… for now. I’m just finding that being focused on 2 different SRS systems that are teaching me different things in the same way makes it hard to remember the Torii stuff because that’s secondary. I’ve only done 20 lessons so far and I’m struggling with the reviews, so having the kana above the kanji is at least exposing me throughout… I could feel differently and turn it back on soon, but I’ll see how my retention is like this first!

[yamitenshi]

Understandable. In the end, you’ll still end up knowing the words, you’ll just have to associate the kanji with them later (which will happen anyway - there’s a good chance you’re going to run into things like 貴方(あなた) at some point, which you know but maybe haven’t seen written like that).

And you’ll still have some of the recognition, because you still do see them kanji and all. It’s just not going to be as thorough as when hiding the furigana.

[anon33985902]

@yamitenshi

And you’ll still have some of the recognition, because you still do see them kanji and all. It’s just not going to be as thorough as when hiding the furigana.

I completely agree and see your point. I think I just need to do the reviews more - I’ve kind of been forgetting about Torii since I started using it, but I’ll get in the habit. So many changes to my studying over the past few days I’m a little overwhelmed

PS. When would you recommend doing more lessons on Torii? When I start getting them to amateur? (assuming that is equivalent to guru)