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Okay it’s a little late in the evening for me to be posing a question, but I’m stuck on another bubble of よつばと!

(I could be completely off with all of this by the way. I THOUGHT Yotsuba’s bubbles were NOT the round ones… can she have both?)

Yotsuba: ついた?- Arrived?
Yotsuba: どこについた?- What place have we arrived at?

Dad: どこつて - I told you where.
And the part I’m really stuck on is the:
Dad: そりやおまえ… ichi.moe says そり = curve or shave, や is the particle for one of many things, and おまえ is most likely “you.”

Any help available would be much appreciated per usual :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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That’s どこって (note the small っ) - って being a colloquial form of と言う (in this case “where, you say”)

That’s a small ゃ, so そりゃ, not そりや. That said, ichi.moe still won’t make much sense here, it’s a bit too colloqual for that.

It’s a followup to どこって, and it’s super colloqual and once again leaves a lot implied grammatically. そりゃ is a colloquial form of それは, but as you it doesn’t actually contain the “relevant” part of the sentence, it just leaves that bit to be inferred from tone and context. Compare it to saying “that’s…” and then trailing off in English, your facial expression is going to convey what you’re trying to say, and in this case it’s the same thing.

If you look at his facial expression and the little bead of sweat, he’s essentially just exasperated, and that’s what he’s conveying here. It’s hard to give a translation, but it’s something along the lines of “Where, you ask? Oh, you…” - he’s expressing his exasperation at Yotsuba asking where they’ve arrived. The next panels will show you why exactly.

The thing here is, they’re moving. Presumably, he told Yotsuba about that - but after all the preparations and actually transporting their stuff (hence him driving a mini truck) she’s completely unaware of what’s going on and asking him where they’ve actually headed. He’s completely incredulous that she’d ask that, since if she’d been paying any attention for presumably any amount of time in the past few weeks, she’d have been aware that they’ve arrived at their new house.

You see that in the next panels - he says to her that this is their new house, and Yotsuba is completely confused by that, showing she had no idea where they were headed and why.

You’ll notice this pattern of Yotsuba essentially being completely unaware of the world around her a lot in this manga, it’s basically the whole “thing” about Yotsuba as a character - she’s not just a normal kind of childlike, she experiences the world around her in an entirely different way and seems to constantly have her head in the clouds, blissfully unaware of social norms, utterly lacking in common sense and completely unaware of what should be obvious to any reasonable person. It’s childlike wonder taken to an extreme, essentially.

EDIT: also

Yes, she can have both. Round bubbles are for normal speaking voice, the pointy ones are for LOUD NOISES, basically :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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The bubbles signify “how” the dialogue is spoken, so you’ll see one character use different types.

The rounded ones are for normal speaking (when there’s a “>” tail) or thinking (when there’s a “O o” tail). In some cases, there won’t be a tail, which typically means it’s spoken by someone not in the panel.

Then you get the “spikey” ones, like in your picture here. That’s for a raised voice, such as speaking in a loud volume or shouting, as well as for exclamation.

Wavy can mean someone is flustered or uneasy, a bit shakey.

08_846817_846756_1_121_001s

Cloud-like can mean someone is cheery or buoyant in their speech.

08_846896_846756_1_162_001x

I don’t recall offhand if either of these come up in Yotsuba (they probably do at some point).

You don’t have to remember these, however. For these “emotion” word balloons, they often align with the speaker’s facial expression, and simply add to the impact or feel of how the line is spoken.

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Apologies for the late reply! Ton of reviews and lessons this morning :slight_smile:

Yes I tried both! :thinking: The difference in the font size is extremely insignificant, so this is something I will have to get used to for sure.

Yes I seem to be getting tripped up quite a bit on this implied grammar so to speak. I can infer to a small extent, but it has definitely not been easy for me (I don’t expect it would be given how novice I am!) I always pay close attention to the facial expressions, but they can definitely lead you in a different direction too if you don’t know the context.

I too noticed the bead of sweat! This box makes much more sense now. Thank you for this super detailed step-by-step explanation :smiley: It’s helpful to see what one actually has to do to read manga.

HAHA I like this about Yotsuba already! She seems like a goofy oblivious cute thing kind of like a kitten :laughing:

DEFINITELY good to know! This was a huge question I had. Well, 5 pages down (including the title page because I read the words “Yotsuba & Moving”)! I plan on 6 and 7 today, but they have much more conversation on them, so we’ll see what happens. I wish this Manga had page numbers so it’s easier to update on the Natively website…

ありがとう やみてんし!

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Okay this detailed explanation is *very helpful! I don’t know why I assumed the round ones were attributed to the dad only, it makes perfect sense that the “mood” of the bubble signifies the way they are talking! So:

Round = normal
Spiky = excited/surprised
Oo = thought
Wavy = flustered/uneasy
Cloud = cheery/buoyant
*often aligned with speakers facial expression.

:white_check_mark:

I will keep an eye out for them in よつばと! (I mean I do have all 15 volumes, they are bound to show up somewhere!) At a rate of 2 pages per day who knows how long it will take - but I’m determined!

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Happy New Year, everyone!

@yamitenshi @ChristopherFritz @crmsnprincess89 @WeebPotato @Daisoujou @MagicalGrill @fallynleaf @bakugames @ccookf

I figured since it’s the first of a new year I’d like to journal a monthly update for myself (and you!). If I tagged you it’s because you have helped me quite a bit in my study log thus far, and apologies if I happened to miss someone!

I first explored WaniKani last year for a little over a month, getting into level 3 at that time. I came back and reset everything on November 25 (Thanksgiving), so it’s been a little over a month now. I am working toward finishing up level 6 in a few days, but I have learned some pretty basic things about my own learning style, of which I will briefly bullet-point below:

  • Kanji: I feel like I’m keeping up with the Kanji fairly well overall, and I use the Self-Study Quiz user-script daily to go back to previous levels. I have created many custom quiz modes and suspect I’ll be creating a few more.
  • Vocabulary: I have been advised that WK is not the best teacher of vocabulary as it is primarily set up to teach Kanji. I do not mind this at all, it just means I will have to learn more vocabulary in other ways.
  • Grammar: Thanks to many for advising me about this, because I’ve learned a few things that are helping me most. 1) Forum help! - I ask so many questions that people are kind enough to take the time and answer so thoroughly, and even if I have to re-read it, I eventually get more and more out of it. 2) Cure Dolly! - At first her voice was like fingernails on a chalk board, but now I actually like it! I have currently gone through her first 3 lessons, just trying to solidify が は だ を に basics. 3) Trying to read Manga! - This is super exciting for me, and even though I’ve needed a lot of forum help to get started, I have been told that reading immersion is one of the best ways to learn grammar. I know I prefer this over Bunpro as I was learning very little with their grammar points during my free trial. 4) More to come! Others have recommended things like the Tae Kim’s Guide to Learning Japanese website, but I have yet to explore that more.
  • Resources I Like So Far:
    Wanikani User-Scripts - I have around 18-20 that I’m currently using. They help my slightly OCD brain organize my learning experience the way I’d prefer it while maximizing the benefit of WaniKani’s SRS.
    Japanese Dictionaries - Jisho / Shirabe Jisho for iPhone (even better IMO!)
    ichi.moe (for parsing sentences and trying to read at such a low level of understanding!)
    Natively (learnnatively/com) - Cool newer website for comparing and grading books for difficulty. I just use it to track my reading at this point, but it is set up nicely to do so! https://learnnatively.com/user/Shenmue/

Overall, the most goes out to those who I’ve connected with through this thread and others! Without you I would be severely lacking in understanding to this point :slight_smile:

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Congrats on all your progress so far! Learning how you best learn this stuff is a huge step at the beginning, so it’s nice that you’re being so attentive to figuring all that out. And really, I have to say, this is impressively early to be tackling manga. Some people just jump into real Japanese right at the beginning for a trial by fire and it always impresses me. I had to hide out in textbooks and graded readers for a couple months, learning vocab from lists and studying grammar until I had a theoretical tentative near-N4 level (I’m sure I wouldn’t have passed but I had been at least exposed to most of the ~N4 info) before I could bring myself to start on real reading.

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Thank you! I’m glad to hear that attuning my learning style is important, because it feels that way. And yes, I am kind of surprised that I am just jumping in to reading (albeit with a lot of help from you all and ichi.moe :laughing: ). Experience is always my best teacher, and reading a grammar point on Bunpro did not seem to be doing the job. I also have the All About Particles book which is highly rated, but I’m a little intimidated by it because it goes through "は” (for example) and shows like 12 grammar points for it. Congrats on passing N4! Sounds like you know your learning style too. Here’s a question for you: Why are so many people focused on N5 to N1? Is it because they are studying Japanese academically or with hopes to work in Japan and need a certain level of fluency? For me, I really don’t care too much about being tested (plus I hate test!!)

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Oh, so I didn’t actually mean to imply I passed the test! I haven’t taken any JLPT test for real. In my case it’s just an easy shorthand (all the flaws of the rating system aside) to very roughly estimate where I am in ability. Like I want to say I’m not ready for the N3, but in overall Japanese comfort, I’d estimate I’m somewhere currently inching towards it. But since I learn only through real reading and listening now, I know loads of N1 or N2 grammar points or words and don’t know plenty of N3 ones because language learning isn’t linear. But it’s still a semi-understood benchmark for some of where one’s overall abilities are so that, when it’s not the point, I don’t have to spend a few paragraphs trying to describe how my comprehension is in what I’m reading, haha. It also works a little better at N5 or N4 for this too, because those are such basic building blocks, most everyone has to go through in the same rough order before diverging more the further in your studies you get.

Otherwise, yeah, unless you want the test for personal reasons to gauge your progress, or need the evidence for the sort of reasons you listed (and for those purposes, anything below N2 seems pretty unimportant)… the JLPT isn’t too significant and certainly has a lot of flaws in how it measures abilities. Unless my life takes a big unexpected turn, if I ever take it, it’ll be far in the future, after I feel like I’ve got everything down so well that I can confidently walk into the N1 and pass it. I’ve got no real intentions to study for the test and it’s not a meaningful goal for me, at the moment.

Oh and also, since you mention は in particular… yeah for what a basic building block that particle is, it can be deceptively complicated, especially detangling it from が. I dunno if I’ve got it down fully yet, honestly. I wouldn’t bother thinking too much about the nuances at this stage, but at a later point, if it’s something on your mind and that book isn’t clearing it up for you, I bet some people here could have good resources on the topic.

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I see! Yes I have that user-script and it says I already like like 0.1% of N1 hah! Long ways to go!

Okay so this is why most people use this as a benchmark, whether or not they are really going to be seeking the official tests.

Same here. If I ever wanted to take N5 for fun and was far enough along to be interested in higher levels I’d do it, but for now it’s definitely not on my list of goals!

GOOD to know! I think I just need to focus on は as Cure Dolly teaches it to me and I encounter it in my reading. If I want to try and “untangle it” later I think the All About Particles book will be helpful with that as it has example sentences and all.

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Eventually, you’ll get used to all the different scenarios presented in those examples, and you’ll better understand how all the examples are essentially one usage, in various situations with their own individual nuances.

It’s sort of like how if you pick up a book about dogs, it may talk about labrador retrievers, and German shepherds, and beagles and Yorkshire terriers, and poodles and dachshunds, and so on. They’re all dogs, but they have different traits and specialties.

Likewise, if you see a particle with ten different examples of usage, it’s different usages for the same concept.

Luckily, Cure Dolly’s videos do a good job at explaining it in a way that should help with the overall concept, which may ultimately make it easier to work through the different scenarios you’ll see it in.

It wasn’t until I watched Cure Dolly’s videos on は and が that I finally started to realize how different the two are conceptually. Every other resource I’ve read conflated the two as if they were essentially the same thing, which only helped keep me from grasping the topic-comment structure in a topic-prominent language, and how it differs from the subject-prominent English.

I agree with this. It’s better to get the basics down, and as you get into reading (and listening/watching if you incorporate these), you’ll start to see those different situations, and it’ll be easier to understand them if you re-read sections of All About Particles and other resources.

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Great example! You also forgot Huskies! :laughing:

Yeah she’s like a no nonsense “here’s how to best view learning Japanese as a whole” kind of a teacher. She makes you feel confident that some things are as simple as you could ask for, you just need to be introduced to them the right way.

Yes that’s what it seemed like on Bunpro, and she clearly and succinctly explains how が is always there, even if it’s a “zero が” and can’t be seen. I still need to go over that video for a third time and make a quick note or two so I can move forward and make sure I’m learning at the pace she teaches.

Okay great, I’m glad I’ll likely get some more use out of that book in the future!!!

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@Beyond_Sleepy I just had to say I saw your user-card after you liked a post of mine and I had to look up Toki Pona! Wikipedia’s general description has fascinated me! Do you mind if I ask what interested you in learning it?

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Atonement.

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HAHAHA consider yourself atoned :laughing:

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jan Misali’s videos on it got me interested, so I bought the book this Christmas and I feel like learning Toki Pona is giving me both new insight and motivation for language learning in general. I plan to write about that once I’ve got the basics down:)

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Awesome well if you remember, tag me in the post! I like that a primary objective is to focus on simplicity and promote positive thinking :slight_smile:

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Oh… my… goodness.

I just spent 3 hours working through TWO pages of よつばと! :sweat_smile:

Just a couple things…

  • I am SUPER grateful to anyone who wants to take the time to help me with this page. Don’t hold anything back!
  • I have no idea what or who ジャンボー is… other than that’s how Yotsuba greets the other guy. I assume he’s a realtor??
  • This was time consuming but SUPER fun!!!
Page 6

Page 7

MY ATTEMPT!

六 Box 1: ブウン Whoosh? noise of car stopping?
六 Box 2: ば「」?
六 Box 3 Father: よう hey; yo; hi
六 Box 3 Other Guy (Realtor?): うす ?
六 Box 4 Yotsuba: ジャンボー Jyambo!! ? いさしぶり It’s been so long! だなー!! I tell you!!
六 Box 4 Other Guy: おーー よつば honorific prefix greeting Yotsuba
六 Box 5: が indicates Yotsuba as sentence subject

七 Box 1 Other Guy: 元気に full of energy / spirit ブン ブン noise of patting her head? してたか? aren’t you?
七 Box 1 Yotsuba:とあー Yes やめろ Stop (joyfully as he pats her head)
七 Box 2 Father: ヤンダは is it done? まだ? more to do still?
七 Box 2 Other Guy: あーあいつ yes, correct. it’s time. 用が入ったから business to obtain is complete こねえって Oh?, だめだわ ([n] neutral point (in go); intersection owned by neither player at the end of a game?)
七 Box 3 Yotsuba: ジャンボ Jyambo?
七 Box 3 Yotsuba: しばらく見ないとらに for a while I’ve waited to see this place また大きくなった and become like an adult!
七 Box 3 Other Guy: お?どこで don’t you know おばえた understand, old lady, そのセリフ that it’s not that compelling.
七 Box 3 Father:まあいいか oh well, I suppose. ジャンボ がふたりぶん it takes two people 働くしな to function.
七 Box 4 Other Guy:そんな事はない Never! That never happens! 俺は働かない I work!
七 Box 4 Father: 働いて。。。 To take the trouble to work…
七 Box 4 Yotsuba: よつばがはたらく!! Yotsuba can work!!
七 Box 5 Other Guy: おー! えらいぞ よつば!Excellent Yotsuba! うーちゃんは ダメだなー little girls are not allowed!
七 Box 5 Father:とちゃんは だめだ!! This is not good!!

@yamitenshi Just wanted to your opinion to see if I was somewhat close in the context of these two pages :sweat_smile: You don’t have to go crazy into detail, but perhaps just point out where I was terribly off?

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I don’t have the time to go through your work right now (I’m sure someone will beat me to it when I do again, but if no one has looked by then I can take a crack at it eventually), but for this bit, it’ll become clear soon, but he’s just a friend of Yotsuba’s dad. That’s his nickname he is almost always referred to by.

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If after that you’re ready to go back for more, then you’re definitely in a position to make good progress.

I remember my early days of spending a couple of hours to get through a few panels, and taking all kinds of notes on the grammar. Sometimes I’d see something and think it’s my first time encountering it, only to find a familiar set of web search results. But over time, the same grammar came up again and again, and I got used to it. Things that I struggled with back then, I now recognize, process, and understand without even thinking about it.

I mention this in case you encounter the same along the way. It’s easy to feel like some things just don’t make sense, or that you aren’t going to be able to remember them. But over time, it all works out, so long as you keep moving forward.

Others are replying, so I’ll wait and see if anyone else is tackling translation answers before I respond on them.

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