Ready to try learning Japanese for the 2nd time, any advice?

Just thought of something that might be helpful (at least for confidence) - I love this youtube channel - Comprehensible Japanese - her complete beginner videos have tons of repetition, visuals etc - you can pick up what’s happening even without a lot of Japanese vocabulary/grammar, which is pretty great feeling. Definitely easier than Nihongo Con Teppei (but you really do want to watch the video, not just listen.

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I have been learning Japanese on and off for a couple of years now. And what is really working for me now is a couple of things:

  • Dont collect methods. I used to buy al kinds of books, all kinds of subscriptions, browsed all the websites etc. And never really stuck to any of it, just continued to do the beginner stuff all over the place. Pick something that works for you and stick with it.
  • Actually pick something that works for you. There is a lot of advice out there, and a lot of it is great and will work. But if you are not into it, then it will not grab you and it’s harder to stick to it.
  • Don’t overdo it. The best method, is the method that you can sustain for a long period of time. Learning Japanese, will take a while, and you have to be able to stick with it for atleast a couple of years, depending on where you want to end up. So the best method would be the one that doesn’t burn you out.
  • Start reading. This one is tricky in the beginning, but there are even level 0 books out there, like the Tadoku graded readers etc. (Free ones here). But for me atleast, once I started reading, not only did I make a lot of progress, but I also felt like I made a lot of progress, which is motivating on its own.

In the end, you really want to stick to what works for you. I think people get burned out a lot on following all kinds of advice that doesn’t really suit them. Or try to do the whole immersion in anime even though they don’t really understand a single word. That stuff will break you very quickly unless you have some type of iron determination and immense amounts of time a day to spend on it. Which I don’t have.

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Comprehensible Japanese is amazing I think, might be one of the better resources to start with. The whole concept of natural/immersed learning is amazing. It is how I used to learn other languages as well, but I thought that Japanese would be too different from my own language or any other that I understand. But the way she does it, you can really immidiatly follow just about anything, and just watching them, and repeating a couple of times, can really get you going quite fast into understanding sentence sentences etc.

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yes! here’s the link to her website where she has a lot of great resources:
Sakura Tips with Mari

and here’s the link to subscribe to her (free) newsletter where she provides the discord link after you’ve put your email address in. I would give you the direct link but I don’t want to be disrespectful if she has people sign up through email for a certain reason :slight_smile:
Sakura Community Information

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Of course! I’m using Duolingo only because I have a few friends using it for other languages and had signed up to learn Spanish years ago. I did struggle with the Japanese lessons at first and actually stopped using it for a little while because I felt there was a big gap between my knowledge and what they were throwing at me in the beginning. After learning a little more about grammar and getting my Hiragana and Katakana down, I find it much easier to use for reviewing what I’ve learned elsewhere. I hadn’t heard of Lingodeer when I picked it back up again, so I’ll have to check it out!

As for vloggers on Youtube, I really like Yamamomo’s channel although she does speak very quickly and her content is probably pretty niche if you aren’t into lifestyle/fashion/shopping vlogs. I also like Miku’s channel but she doesn’t always do a lot of talking in her videos, though she does type japanese subtitles to read from.
I did a quick google search and found this website which has a list of the top 10 youtubers in Japan!

Hope this helps and thank YOU for your recommendations!

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Awesome post! Happy to hear you’re reflecting on what went wrong before and what could be done different this time. There’s a lot of good advice in the posts above, so to answer one that hasn’t been answered yet:

As far as I’m aware, there is no way to skip levels. If you did WaniKani in the past, you can resume from that level. However, I attempted this last year after being gone for an extended time and had 500 reviews of words I hadn’t heard in over a year. Even bringing it down to level 3 didn’t help the mountain much and a lot of words never stuck in my memory from being away that long.

I restarted just before the new year and have been following the fastest method for making it through WaniKani. Maintaining this pace would get you through the entire program by the end of the year, but people who do it say it gets very difficult in later levels. Still, if you have a good foundation, use it to fly through early levels of WaniKani to get into a habit and do some other Japanese studies between WaniKani sessions when you’re itching for more.

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I like how you’ve articulated this.

Slow and steady.

I’ve been learning Japanese on and off for years using the not-so-effective cram/do too much/get overwhelmed/burn out method. Maybe some people do really well dedicating a lot of time to Japanese everyday, but I don’t.

I find daily manageable chunks better, I think there’s plenty of study logs/study plans/daily resources and routines here but truthfully you’re not going to fit it all in. Do things in Japanese that you love. Mould it into your life not the other way around.

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(…) * Start reading. This one is tricky in the beginning, but there are even level 0 books out there, like the Tadoku graded readers etc. (Free ones here) . But for me atleast, once I started reading, not only did I make a lot of progress, but I also felt like I made a lot of progress, which is motivating on its own. (…)

Excellent tip! Thank you!

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Most of the points I would say have already been stated, such as:
Shrink your lofty, broad goals into manageable, attainable ones (I.e. be able to read Japanese → make my way through a level 0 reader) and then focus your studies on what you need to achieve that goal.
Slow it down and find the method that’s enjoyable for you.
Acknowledge that learning a language takes time, and that you will never know everything (that’s what makes it so fun!).

I want to harp on this last point a bit. I’ve been studying Japanese for over a decade now. I lived and worked there for 4 years. I hold an N1. I still can’t understand the vast majority of Japanese songs, anime, and movies without Japanese subtitles and a dictionary. Some games are still really hard to play and fully understand. Some books are absolute terrors to get through. I wouldn’t have it any other way.

What took me the longest to learn is that these weak areas are not a sign of failure, they are completely natural. Think of your native language; can you understand everything thrown at you? Probably not, but you’re still “fluent” right? You just don’t understand because you don’t study that type of material. It’s the same with Japanese! You’ll get there with Japanese in time.

Enjoy the ride, friend. Don’t rush it. Find your method, make small, growable goals from your big ones, and some day you too will be stumbling through all of the media and content you want to enjoy, and you’ll be loving every single moment, frustrating OR easy :slight_smile:

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I think the key to language learning is consistency. Just like what others have said, find what works for you and do it slowly, but consistently.

What actually works for me is taking a Japanese class. Because of the following reasons:

  1. I realized I can’t keep my motivation.
    Many times in the past I’ve tried studying Japanese on my own but it always failed. Because it’s difficult! And continue doing it for a long period of time is even more difficult! So there would be time when I feel burst of motivation and would study for hours, and continue doing it for 2 weeks. But after that, I didn’t touch Japanese for a year and forgot everything.
    Now that I’m taking a Japanese class, even on the days when I don’t feel motivated at all, I have no choice but to go to the class. I had to drag my ass down to the class. As the result, I managed to continue learning and improving my Japanese, even when I was not in the mood of doing so.

  2. It becomes a source of motivation to be better.
    When I meet other students who are good at Japanese, it triggers my competitive self and it gets me thinking, “I also want to be as good as him!” And it motivates me to learn outside class, eg listening to podcasts / do Wanikani. Motivation can easily disappear. So in this case, the Japanese class becomes a regular reminder / source of motivation to learn more Japanese.

  3. It’s an achievement.
    When I feel down and I feel worthless, I remember that I’ve been going to Japanese class every weekend for 3 years. Dragging yourself on Sunday morning to learn a new language is an amazing feat. I remind myself that it’s amazing I managed to continue doing this for 3 years.

  4. It’s a place where you can be better than the rest.
    If you are the type of person who compare yourself to people around you and you feel sad because your life is worse than other people’s, then Japanese class is a bubble. It is a bubble where you can be better than other people and feel good about it. Teachers will praise you, other students will envy you. You might be a lousy employee outside of the class, but inside, you’re a great person.
    This reminds me of a book I read where many scientists or doctors were joining a cult, and one of the reasons is that in their workplace, they’re nobody. They were not appreciated. They were lousy, compared to their colleagues. But inside the cult, they’re regarded as a great person and it makes them feel good. They would contribute to the cult, and they would feel important.
    So this Japanese class is the same thing, except that it won’t persuade you to do any criminal activity. To feel even better in class, you would study hard, which will improve your Japanese, which will make you even better. It’s a cycle.

It works for me, but it might not work for you. I know some people who don’t like group class because they have to follow the pace of other students. So again, the key is to find something that works for you, and be consistent.

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These graded readers look like exactly like what I need right now. I’m already hitting a wall with memorization, especially for readings, since I can’t really apply any of it yet. Hopefully some low-level, “cat says meow” type literature will help me get over this. :cat:

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I would love to know which J-pop groups\artists you’re listening to! I want to find more music in Japanese. I now play the same songs on loop.

Recently found Chanmina. Didn’t like her songs the first time, but now I love them!

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Update

Thank you for all the Reponses so far, I have accumulated the responses I found interesting and noted any shared resources.
You can expand each section to view separately to keep it easier to read.

Response Breakdown

panosjenn

  • Sakura Tips with Mari, fantastic podcast, discord server and community

TofuMental

  • Don’t burn your self out and take it slower

@irabuyu

Pizh

  • I agree I need to reduce the amount of resources and lower my expectations, thank you

@ochamame

  • Build a foundation first, by memorising vocab, kanji and basic grammar
  • Then you can start immersing and things become more fun
  • If you need a break, stop learning new stuff but keep reviewing the stuff you already learned

@CoffeeFuel

@Cycle

  • Not sure if ‘From ZERO’ was referring to the company or just outlining the learning route, but I have been really enjoying the From ZERO content this time around
  • Learn each of the below subjects thoroughly before moving on to the next:
    • Kana
    • Kanji
    • Vocabulary
    • Grammar
  • Only focus on immersion when you have got a solid grasp on the basics
  • Understand that even after years of productive learning and effort, it will still be hard to digest native content and there will always be more to learn

@ArmadilloFour

  • It is fun and productive to practice output
  • When you learn grammar points, sit down and right any sentences using the vocabulary you already know, even if they sound silly as long as they work grammatically to instil that grammar point

Thud

  • Don’t do too much at once, it is marathon not a sprint

@ccookf

  • Japanese has something of an initial wall around N4 level where you cannot really digest anything with what you have learned
  • You want to break past that wall as soon as possible but also don’t want to burn out on the way
  • The most important things to do this are basic vocab and grammar

@wct

  • ‘taking it slow and steady, but especially to enjoy the process of learning’ sounds great, I read through the thread and found it very interesting
  • I do plan to somewhat catch up to where I was then will cut off the lessons until I am at a manageable level then reintroduce the lessons from their on, great idea

evandcs

  • Don’t burn your self out trying to do everything at once
  • WaniKani + BunPro

@meagstudies

  • Create S.M.A.R.T goals, great idea I definitely will thanks

@Nishi790

sosanlx

  • Pick a method, stick with it all the way through and don’t do too much or you’ll burn out
  • Start reading as soon as you can, starting with level 0 books and working your way up, free resource: Free books – にほんごたどく

cyanfolds

@cplaguzza

  • Your exposure and experience really put things into perspective, this will always be hard work especially given I can’t/don’t live/work in an environment where this language is spoken daily.
  • Think of the weaknesses as natural areas to improve on rather than failures

Neba

  • Consistency over volume is key
Response Summary

This is a list of the most common responses which indicate they are most important:

  • Reduce the amount of resources used and don’t spend as much time looking for the best resource instead of actually using it
  • Value consistency over volume and don’t get burned out
  • Immersion is best once the fundamentals are understood (N4-N3), up until that point purely focus on kana, kanji, vocab and grammar
  • Digesting native content will never be ‘easy’ and you will always find words/kanji that you need to look up and study
  • When you learn new words and grammar rules, practice them as soon as possible and in as many different ways as possible to solidify it in your memory
  • Create S.M.A.R.T goals as broad varied goals do not allow you to see progress made and don’t narrow the route down to the path you need to take to get there
Plans Going Forward
  • Use ‘Japanese From Zero’ books, video series and discord server as an overall learning tool
  • Use WaniKani for learning kanji
  • Use BunPro for grammar
  • Use Kitsun for vocab and kana

I am wondering if I can combine WaniKani with Kitsun to cut down the resources, but I do prefer the WK platform so may keep it as is.

I do actually feel that having those three platforms for SRS is manageable for me as long as I control the volume of each by adjusting how many lessons I take on. But I will re-asses in a months time and see if my time could be better spent.

The Japanese From Zero videos have really helped me get a better understanding of text book vs natural Japanese as George really does a great job of telling you when something is a ‘make or break’ mistake or if your sentence will still be understood even if you mess it up slightly, also when text book sentences sound robotic and when a more natural and widely used alternative is almost essential.

I have ordered the books and will begin working through them when they arrive, for now I have been working through the first couple of free classes on his new website FromZero.com until I can work through the physical books.

I will listen to podcasts such as ‘Sakura Tips’ & ‘Lets learn Japanese from small talk’ to get more accustomed to the sound and pattern of the language but understand I will not be able to interpret what is actually being said until much further into studies.

I will also watch very basic YouTube videos such as ‘Comprehensible Japanese’ and ‘Japanese Immersion with Asami’ in my spare time as an additional resource to ensure I am experiencing some kind of low level immersion until I can start to try things like Anime/Manga/Video Games etc.

I really appreciate all the advice and resources you have all provided and look forward maybe some day in the future speaking to some of you in Japanese either on here or in a discord server.

Thank you all! :smile:

Edit: Formatting

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great plan, but the Kitsun (Kana deck/10K Core deck) might be a bit redundant when you’re using Wanikani. (Or at least wait until you’ve learnt all you can from Wanikani). You can check with someone more advanced, they should have a better idea.

I was having the same problem, using way too many resources and over-extending myself. Now I’m just using Wanikani, Bunpro, daily reading practice, and Genki (with listening and writing activities). It’s still a lot, but manageable.

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This rings true already actually I think you make a good point.

I have noticed quite a few repetitions already and I can only imagine there will be more as I progress through both.

I wonder if there is a way to remove duplications across WK and Kitsun, I remember there was a way to do this with Anki.

If I can’t find a way I may replace Kitsun with Satori Reader.

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Excellent stuff! If you ever find yourself getting overloaded feel free to make certain days be certain kinds of study. As you’ve clearly picked up on, language learning isn’t a race - enjoy the journey!

For a real world example, I’m learning guitar but if I try to practice everything I want to learn in a day technical exercises alone would take an hour or more and I don’t have that kind of time, so I split my exercises into A and B and I alternate each day. That way I cover my bases of what I want to learn and improve at without getting overloaded.

You’re going to do great! And if you find yourself getting tired just hit the brakes and slow it down til you’re comfortable.

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  1. Relax
  2. Take it slow
  3. Consistency is key, basically even if you go at the speed of a tortoise… with small (almost) daily effort, over time it will add up to a lot.
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Yeah what people have been saying here, don’t burn out.

I’ve personally burned out several times while juggling school, work etc. there is no shame in just doing the bare minimum or even doing nothing at all for a day if you’re feeling overwhelmed or tired.

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If you’re still taking suggestions, imo you are still spreading yourself too thin. Since you mentioned you don’t want to take time away from you wife and kids it’s extra important that you limit your study time. You dont have enough time to do three different SRS platforms, watch videos, and use a textbook. With your current plan going forward, you may not be burnt out in four months but you will likely feel the same lack of progress.

I would suggest different resources but from what you have listed:

  1. Watch one Comprehensive Input video each study day
  2. Pick one SRS
  3. Do one specialized practice activity: Kanji (if SRS is not WK) OR Reading OR Listening OR Grammar related

About your goals:

Since 2 of your 3 goals include reading and listening and your third bullet point says that you don’t need speaking and writing in the short term which essentially negates them from your first bullet point.
Doing some pseudo math we get
2Reading 2Listening 0Speaking 0Writing
You just need to understand so anything that requires you to make sentences would be wasting your study time

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I agree you are right, I feel like I need to do the most and get better as soon as possible.

I suppose it is like exercising in the way that if you lift too much too soon you just get injured and require more rest, but if your consistent to an achievable plan then over time you will see more positive results while not overexerting yourself.

So as you suggest I would probably pick:

  1. Watch 1 Comprehensible Japanese video per study day
  2. Use WaniKani as my SRS (potentially BunPro as well? I have found it helpful to understanding sentance structure, but this may be unnecessary due to reading practice)
  3. Reading as my practice activity (Satori Reader or Absolute Beginner Book Club or NHK Easy News)

I’ll try and add you on Discord, I am very new to the platform but recently joined the JFZ server to try and get some reading/writing practice.

Thanks again for the response.

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