Reading ブラックジャックによろしく manga exercises (p14-and up)

The idea was to continue, in the same thread, with the next two pages of the mange. Until there were too much posts and a new thread opened.

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Really? I thought you said it was 's last time.

Next two pages:

p16-17

Direct link to the pages so you can zoom in

see also the Home page for Episode 3

Maybe you shouldn’t put the page in the title otherwise you’ll need to update every time. Up to you though! :slight_smile:

G.-2

その金を君はどこからひねりだす…?

"From where would you manage to find that money?"

その 金 を 君 は どこ から ひねりだす…?
that money [object] you [topic] where [from] manage.to.find ?

Quite straightforward.
New vocabulary: 捻り出す : 1. to work out, to come up with; 2. to manage to find (money)

H.

このままでは日本の医療財政は崩壊する…

on transcription...

phonetic similarities can be sometimes misleading…
With my knowledge of 財布 (さいふ, wallet), I tried, for 財政, さいせい but it was actually ざいせい

I had also to look for 崩壊 (ほうかい)

(I realize how little vocabulary I actually have…)

"If the situation continues, the financial situation of medical care in Japan will crumble..."

この まま では 日本 の 医療 財政 は 崩壊する…
this condition is-TE [emphasis] Japan [の] medical.care financial.situation [topic] collapse+do

まま is an unchanged condition; so the wording “the situation continues” in the interpretation.

Yes, yes, の is like 's, but I’m saying that 現実の (the whole block) acts like an adjective. There’s actually something called a の-adjective , but if that sounds confusing (I certainly don’t use the concept much), you can see it as の linking a characteristic feature to the thing being characterised. (I think @YanagiPablo mentioned this idea before.) AのB can also be ‘B characterised by A’, just like how ‘of’ in English and “de” in French sometimes link characteristic things to the ‘main’ noun, like ‘a man of steel’ = a man made of steel (literally)/who is like steel (figuratively). I’m fairly sure we’ve all come across 普通ふつうの as in 普通の建物たてもの. 普通=the ordinary, so 普通の建物たてもの = buildings of the ordinary = ordinary buildings.

In your sentence, if we use my 's interpretation, we get 現実の日本の医療費=reality’s Japan’s medical fees=medical fees of Japan of reality, but the ‘reality’ bit doesn’t make sense if we translate it like that. However, if we take it that ‘reality’ characterises ‘Japan’s medical fees’ in some way, we might say ‘real medical fees in Japan’ or ‘actual medical fees in Japan’.

@YanagiPablo: 崩壊 is also the name of an anime-style game produced by a Chinese developer which has Japanese voice actors to do the Japanese dub! (The official English name is more of a compromise between the Japanese and Chinese pronunciations of 崩壊 though…) More seriously speaking, in Chinese, 崩=collapse/fall apart/burst and 壊=broken/bad (this meaning doesn’t exist in Japanese, but in Chinese, it’s the everyday word for ‘bad’; 悪 is a literary word for ‘bad’, and is sometimes closer to ‘evil’ in Chinese).

By the way, just a general thought for everyone about the particle で: sometimes, I just treat it as the mid-sentence form of だ・である・です when the ‘means’ interpretation doesn’t really work. I mean, で probably gave its meaning to である, and not the other way around, but that doesn’t mean we can’t apply our understanding of である to で. E.g. このままでは: the condition/state of the medical system isn’t really a ‘means’ to cause its finances to collapse; it’s the cause of the collapse. No one’s using it to bring about the collapse. It’s more like ‘if this state continues’. On the other hand, if we treat it as a form of である, we get ‘This state being (the case)…’, and the sentence makes sense.

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Thank you, never hear of kanshudo before, looks like a good website. I liked the length of your reply too, it was just right!

Claiming I:

@Jonapedia:

Many Japanese words, almost always nouns or pronouns, can be used as adjectives by adding の at the end.

From the website Jonapedia linked. Again, determining if it’s a possessive or an adjective can only be settled with context I suppose.

In the sentence I last translated:

現実←の→日本← の→医療費

現実: is listed as a noun in my dictionary. I suppose it can only a の adjective because here it can really “possess” Japan? Whereas…

日本
Is a possessive の as in: Japan ’s medical fees (医療費).

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Off-topic post to share a site I thought might be useful:

https://speechling.com/?

It’s supposed to be a free site on which you can record yourself doing speech practice and send it to a coach who will evaluate it and give you comments. I’ve never tried it, but it seem interesting. And you only need to pay if you want ‘unlimited’ coaching, because it’s a non-profit, so they just need money to keep the site running. Japanese is one of the languages.

Guess I’ll do J

J

だったら なんで 手術 なんか した んだ……?
be-TARA why surgery something-like do-past [emphasis/attention]

Translation

In that case, why did (they) do something like surgery…?
だったら: if + to be (so something similar to ‘if that’s’). Can be combined with other words to form a full conditional block e.g. (This came to mind because of the manga’s contents) 医者だったら、なんで助けてあげなかった? = If (you)'re a doctor, why didn’t you help (that person)? Heads-up: ったら (with the little っ) can also be used to reinforce a statement (especially an order), or to emphasise one’s focus on a person/thing e.g. あなたったら、いつもこんなふうね!= You, I say, you’re always like this, huh? 早くこいったら!= Come quickly, I said!
なんで: Written with kanji, it would be 何で=what + [means]. Thus, it means ‘by what means/based on what etc’ = ‘why’
なんか: it means ‘something like’, but it can also have a slightly condescending connotation. Here, it might help to express Saitou’s disapproval and anger towards the pointless surgery.

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No (the idea is that it could be added by anyone, not necessarly the one that made the first post);

It’s true that the real wiki “home thread” is missing; but I want to be sure the whole idea makes sense before requesting for it.
This is how I think that wiki “home post” should look like.

If enough people likes the idea, then the content of that post could be copied into the wiki post, and improved.
(I am even thinking to do a thread for the whole manga; the first message presenting the whole manga, the author, etc. Then one message per episode.
But I don’t know if several messages can be made a wiki in a single thread)

現実←の→日本← の→医療費

I think here it is (現実の)(日本の)医療費 (both attributes of 医療費) rather than ((現実の)日本の)医療費 (現実 attribute of Japan).

Of course, technically both are possible, but “real medical fees of Japan” makes more sense than “medical fees of the real Japan”.

I recently read that one big difference between 小さい vs ちいさな is that while in 小さい山の鳥, “small mountain bird”, it is ambiguous what is small; in 小さな山の鳥 it is unambiguously the mountain that is small (birds from the little mountains), as those な forms can only be directly before the noun they modify.

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Well, I would be this thread isn’t a wiki so I can’t. :slightly_smiling_face: This is the problem with the current setup, it’s less community driven than before. It went back to one person in charge like before with a non-editable first message which is not the spirit of the community principle.

The sooner we have an editable first message wiki the better. This is something fundamental for me (as a person). I hold very strong democratic beliefs and I’m strongly against any sort of pyramidal schemed organisations regardless of the context. :yum:

I think we can give the home thread a try now. Unless you ask for a vote. There won’t be a way to know if people like it enough so I propose that you create it and then the community will edit it to it’s needs.

I also does; but here there it is followed by a は; can we have a te-form followed by は ?

But I would like to know if there can be several wiki posts per thread (as that would completely change the way the “index” will be built, one thread with wiki-messages per episode; or one thread per episode)

Who could we ask about this ?

If several wiki posts are possible; then the ideal would be:

  • 1st post (wiki) : presentation of the whole book, the author, the goals of the exersices, general tips and ideas
  • a new post per episode, made a wiki too: if current, a big link to the current thread. Then presentation of names and places appearing, and the sentences+interpretations done so far (with a link for each one to the post were it is explained)

As we are at episode 3 now, there would then be 4 wiki posts.

If several wiki posts for a single thread are not possible, that would mean 4 separate threads, each with a single wiki post.

I:

無駄な延命治療『は』会社悪いだ…‼︎

Transcription:
無駄な延命治療『は』会社悪いだ…:bangbang:

Vocabulary:

Japanese English
無駄な【むだ・な】 futile 〜な adj.
延命治療【えんめいちりょう】 life-prolonging treatment
会社【しゃかいあく】 Social ills

I was looking forward to deconstruct this.

無駄な is an adjective which describes 延命治療, life-prolonging treatment and that’s the topic 『は』of the sentence. Life-prolonging treatment is futile and that’s a society ill.

Life-prolonging treatment is futile and that’s a society ill.

Edited: to fix mistake regarding 社会悪.

Not 会社悪い but 社会悪 (しゃかいあく)
Before looking into a dictionary I thought it meant “antisocial”; but it’s “social ills” (the bad things of society)

Life-prolonging treatment is futile

You properly identified 無駄な as a (na-)adjective… why do you translate with an attributive phrase instead ? It is “Futile life-prolonging treatment”

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I think that since we have collapsible triangles at this point it’s a moot point whether or not we can have multiple wiki posts. Clear headings and separation lines, it’d be easy enough to keep things organised without having to recreate new posts for each episodes. If it turns out that we want a new post for each episode we’ll vote on it and decide together, this is a decision we make as a community, not as an individual. I know you mean well and you think it’d be the best way to do things but the sooner you relinquish management to the group the better :+1:.

Ex:


:top:separation line:

Episode 1: title

content with possible indented collapsible content"

Etc…

Well, since you asked… yes, we can! It then becomes something like a conditional statement. The extra は turns into into a sort of topic for consideration. If I were to explain it without the ‘conditional’ idea, I would say 〜ては indicates that we are considering the action called ~, and given that it happens, we then think about the rest of the sentence. In fact, ては is used in a very common structure for obligation (=must/have to): 〜なくては ならない (I/you/he/they/we must do ~; literally ‘not doing ~ does not become’) In English, we sometimes say something is ‘unbecoming’ when it is improper or not right. You could say there’s a similar idea here. (There are two ways this expression can be modified, with a slight difference in nuance: 〜なくて→〜なければ and ならない→いけない. I’ll leave you to research that if you’re interested. You should find it if you search ‘expressing obligation in Japanese’. Tae Kim’s Guide to Japanese probably covers it.)

Another more general example, taken from an anime (this stumped me the first time I heard it. Had to ask my friend what was going on): 「死んじゃ、ダメー!!!」A character said this just before stabbing a monster that was trying to kill her companion. Brief analysis: 死んじゃ=死んでは; ダメ=undesirable/useless/unacceptable etc So she was saying ‘it’s not acceptable if (you=her companion) die!’.

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Claiming K:

《延命治療『が』社会悪だなんて言い切るくらいなら》

I won’t delve too much into the vocabulary here as it’s mostly things we’ve seen before.

[Life-prolonging treatment] is the subject of the sentence as indicated by 『が』. I think society ills (社会悪) is followed by the copula (だ). So it’s a repetition of what I just did in I.

I had a hunch 言い+切る were to be parsed together… and I was right. It’s a verb and it means “to declare” 言い切る【いいきる】.

なんて is something I’ve been exposed before. I never quite understood what it did, my first intuition being that it was related to 何 in some way.

I’ll be using Maggie Sensei (and her annoying dog pictures) for that one:

  1. When you emphasize the word or sentence which comes before なんて( = nante) and express your feelings such as surprise (either positive or negative), disgust, admiration, happiness, disbelief, etc.

I think Saitou is disgusted (he’s crying) by the situation which is why he is using なんて.

くらいなら remains. It’s probably:

  • くらい【暗い】hopeless, gloomy;
  • なら which means “if that is the case”

To declare that life-prolonging treatment is a society ill is depressing if that’s the case is the general idea of the sentence I think.

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Claiming L:

《なんで教授【きょうじゅ】『の』指示【しじ】『には』逆らわなっかたんだ》

WIP:

なんで: I’ll keep this one for later.

教授 (professor) +『の』possessive + 指示 (indication or instruction):
The teacher’s indication or instruction.

Now an interesting bit about 指示 (well interesting to me because I’m a language nerd):

My dictionary gives the following definitions:

indication, denotation, designation
ⓑ instructions, directions

While ⓑ are both synonyms, I don’t think ⓐ’s indication and designation have the same meaning, I interpret a difference between the two.

Both of the following definitions are from Merriam-Webster online dictionary:

Indication: something that is indicated as advisable or necessary;

Designation:

Now you might argue that the (1) of designation is the same as indication but I find that the nuance of “advisable” is absent in designation.

Just for the fun of language analysis as it doesn’t cause a problem here as both ⓐ and ⓑ are similar enough not to risk misleading one way or another.

The last bit is:
[…] 逆らわなっかたんだ
There’s のだ/んだ st the very end preceded by 〜なかった which is, quoting Tofugu:

Verbs that end in 〜なかった, like 食べなかった (did not eat), 飲まなかった (did not drink), and 来なかった (did not come), are both past tense and negative. In other words, verbs in this form refer to the past and something that did not happen. In contrast to the verb ending 〜ませんでした, it does not show politeness. So when it is used at the end of a sentence, that sentence is casual rather than polite. It can also be used in the middle of a sentence, in which case it doesn’t usually show whether the sentence is polite or not, but simply gives information about whatever comes next.

So what is in the casual negative past? 逆らわ is or more precisely:
逆【ぎゃく】…which is not listed as a however:
I actually took the plunge and used @Jonapedia’s dictionary link this time around:

So, all in all, “it wasn’t the opposite” because it’s plain past negative form.

Definition

Why isn’t the teacher’s indication not the opposite
…is my interpretation.

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Claiming M

M:. 僕も同じだ……
M Interpretation

僕も同じだ……
In hirigana: ぼくもおなじだ……

(Me also)(the same) is

I am the same.

Yay!! A fast one! Now I can read a bunch of yours, too, in my hour. ^^-

Off Topic @Zizka

Étienne, I went to change my Avatar profile picture… To insert a profile picture, Wanikani sent me off-site to set up an account with Gravatar (which I did); who sent me off-site to set up an account with WordPress (which I did). I uploaded my profile pic to Gravatar, and then restarted Wanikani, and I’m still a light blue soccer ball!! WTH!!
Maybe I’ll try updating from this Board directly instead of through my Wanikani account?

EDIT: YES! That was the trick! In preferences up on “me” directly on this board.

Wow!! We can BOOKMARK posts (hopefully of others) so I can bookmark particularly good grammar discussions that I’ll want to refer back to in the future.

PS. Your ‘シャンオンcan you read this?" comment the other day made me smile. I totally had to look up the compound kanji for “proposal”.
Also, I think you’ll find it more Democratic as we do it, because anybody will be able to put the reference letters on that days’ pages, and nobody will have to re-write that top wiki “from scratch”. You’ll have at least 15 more minutes to study!!

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