Reading ブラックジャックによろしく manga exercises (p14-and up)

They would be in the “episode” (or even manga) thread, like this (look at the story so far and pages)

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You mean the analysis threads and the “home” threads are different? If I understand correctly, we do the back and forth between the analysis thread and the home thread to congregate the sentence claims and the sentence interpretation summmaries.

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Yes, an “index/archive” thread, with links to the actual analysis.

On the “home” thread there is enough information about the history so far, and the done sentences, so that a newcomer can understand the whole history;
and people interested in the details can click on any sentence to go where the detailed analysis has been done.

I updated the mock “home” first message; with my idea on how the “home” message will link to the current ongoing analysis

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Oh ok. I appreciate your initiative to host and implement changes to improve the thread. I personally prefer to deal with scrolling than using multiple threads. The votes were also in that direction at 66% vs 33% but it’s not that much of a big deal. It’s just personal preferences after all. I’ll do my best to get used to it.

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This is the answer I got from Japanese Stack Exchange

Click to read

Working on E part 2.

Transcription

close-up

《現実『には』その末期医療『に』一千万もの金『が』かかる》

Sentence analysed
Japanese English
現実【げんじつ】 reality, actuality;
末期【まっき】 closing years;
医療【いりょう】 medical treatment;
かかる to take (a resource) in the sense of “to require” maybe?

In reality, those final years of medical treatment require 1000x10,000 of money

F.

その金を国民全員が出し合ってストックした医療費の中から出すんだぞ…

君は回復の見込みがほとんどない老人を数々月延命するためだけに何千万円もの国民の金を使うのか?

about the transcription

It’s strange, I’m reaching the point where I can type words I don’t know/understand…

Of the two sentences above, I could type everything with the exception of:

  • いりょうひ (医療費) (it had already hapened in the story, but I forgot)
  • かずかず (数々) (but I know 数 has also an ON-yomi of スウ)
  • えんめい (延命) (but I know 命 has also a kun-yomi of いのち)

Then, I would have expected that 何千万円 be なんせんまんえん ; however, the input method on Windows didn’t show 何;
I tried again with なにせんまんえん and it provided the expected kanji…

Why is it なに here, but なん in 何円、何時、何歳、何月、何ヶ月 … ?

"That money, is taken from the medical expenses contributed and stocked by all the citizens"

その 金 を 国民 全員 が 出し合って ストックした 医療費 の 中 から 出す んだぞ…
that money [object] nation-people all-members [subject] contribute+TE stock-do+past medical-care-bills [の] middle [from] pull out / んだぞ

その金 refers to the cost of an operation told in previous bubble.

I think the sentence can be cut like this:
その金を (国民全員が出し合ってストックした)医療費の中から 出すんだぞ…

that money, is taken off from the medical bills (contributed and stocked by all the citizens)

国民 (こくみん) : people (民) of the country (国)
全員 (ぜんいん) : all members (全=whole, 員=member)
出し合う (だしあう) : to contribute (compound made of 出す, to pull out, and 合う to meet, to unite)
医療費 : medical costs (医=medical, 療=cure, 費=cost)

"You, would like to use the money of the people in the tens of millions of yens for the only purpose of keeping alive for months old people who are hardly at all expected to recover"

君は 回復 の 見込み が ほとんどない 老人 を 数々月 延命する ため だけ に 何千万円も の 国民 の 金 を 使う のか?
you [topic] recovery [の] expectation [subject] hardly.at.all old-people [object] many-months keep.alive purpose only [purpose] how.many.tens.of.millions.yens [even] [の] people の money [object] use のか

  • 見込み (みこみ) : hope, expectation.
  • ほとんど : mostly; +ない => hardly at all
  • 数々月 : several months (I think it is かずかずつき)
  • 延命する : to keep alive
  • 何+number : how many + number
  • 使う (つかう) : to use
  • のか : ending particle, defined as: 1. endorsing and questioning the preceding statement​, 2. lamenting reflections on the preceding statement​

So, the sentence does a sort of rhetorical question, about “using the money of the people of even how many tens of millions of yens”
(何千万円もの国民の金を使う)
and doing it “for the only purpose” (ためだけに) “of keep alive for many months” (数々月延命する),
keepng alive who? old people (老人を) whose expectations of recovery (回復の見込み) are hardly at all existent (ほとんどない)

=> “You, would like to use the money of the people in the tens of millions of yens for the only purpose of keeping alive for months old people who are hardly at all expected to recover”

Note: at first I had written … 国民のを使うのか?
which didn’t make any sense; so I looked the manga again… and it actually is …国民のを使うのか?
That changes a lot!

Hi, I see you guys have been doing a good job! お疲れ様でした!(I wanted to say 皆、よくやった!, but I don’t know the formal version. I’m not sure よくやりました is acceptable. It might be. Hahaha.) The translations seem accurate from what I saw. I’ll just respond to @YanagiPablo’s question. I’ll be online for just the next 15 mins though, so do tag me before I leave if you want an immediate response. I unintentionally spent a long time online today responding to a discussion on the ‘input hypothesis’, which I think is a bit too extreme (and not that helpful, in my opinion).

I sincerely think this is just a mistake on the part of the input software, because it’s not able to parse the meaning of your phrase. Whenever I type a long sentence without selecting characters, my input suggestions go wild. It should be なん, I’m fairly sure. Don’t worry about it. You can try checking online for pronunciations (like on Forvo) if you want to be extra certain, but I’m quite sure 何千 on its own is なんせん.

I tried on Linux (with “anthy”); and while it didn’t know of “なんせんまんえん” either; I could select “なんせん” and “まんえん” separately. So it seems that “なんせん” is valid for 何千.

(The default behaviour of the Microsoft input on Windows is a nightmare for learners, as it tries to guess ahead too much (proposing text that hasn’t been typed at all).
Does anyone know how to disable that, so propositions are based strictly only on what is typed and not on what “could be typed in the future” ?)

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Where is the input analysis? I’d like to read your comment.

@Jonapedia, I checked the thread, I know which one now. I didn’t realise it was a debate. People rarely change ideas about those, don’t get your hopes up :stuck_out_tongue:.

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Search about “input hypothesis” in the recent threads; I think it should be that one (I just lurked at it, and abandoned as it seemed too terse for me)

You can also click on user name, and see his recent contributions.

(as for the length of the text; I think I should have made one letter per bubble indeed; they were long and complex sentences…
I’ll know for next time)

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I’ll do the right half of G.

I hope you guys don’t. I don’t mind but I’d rather commit to shorter assignments than longer ones.

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Here it is more likely the other meaning: “terminal” (as in terminal illness)
(note also the kanji are “end-period”; the period isn’t specified; be it years, weeks, or “time in hospital” will depend on context)

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Yup I know look above :top:.

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Turns out I’m back here again… Haha.

Well, true. I was just hoping to stop the ‘spread’ of the idea that only input is a good idea, because the guy who’s most famous for following that method (who is now very fluent)… he locked himself in his room while he was staying with a Japanese family to avoid making ‘bad output’. He says he regrets it now, but that’s scarily antisocial and very extreme. And while it’s true that output (like what we’re doing here) doesn’t produce a huge amount of learning, getting corrected afterwards does. And practising output makes you more fluent with the words you already know.

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G1:

《現実の日本の医療費『は』50 兆15 年後『には』80 兆『と』言われている》

I’ll edit the answer here.

The reality of medical fees in Japan…
15 years later…
Quotation 『と』…
Verb to say…
I’m only missing 兆… which means trillion.

I’m telling you that the reality of medical fees in Japan is 50 trillion now and. 80 trillion 15 years later.

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以上 means “more than”/“beyond” (以 = compare, 上 = above); これ以上の治療は無駄だ means the same thing as これからの治療は無駄だ.
Translation in spoiler: “in other words, any treatments from now are useless”

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I won’t go looking for the original thread as it’ll just annoy me but I know exactly who you mean and… let’s just say I’ve got him and his hashtag blocked on social media. Bit offtopic, but he has a weirdly dedicated (and defensive/hostile) following and I’m a bit concerned about some of them. If someone wants to wait until they feel ready to start speaking that’s fine of course, but I agree that output is far from useless. Imagine you’ve been hardcore studying for years, start speaking for the first time and inevitably make mistakes; that can’t be good for your confidence, especially if you’ve avoided speaking precisely because of a fear of making mistakes and forming “bad habits”. I won’t tell anyone how to live their life but that’s my two cents haha.

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I won’t be doing G2

…so help yourself.

So what do we do when this page is done again?

と言われている means ‘to be considered’/‘to be said’. It’s like a sort of public opinion. ‘It is being said that/people are saying that…’. There are actually two separate sentences. The second one starts with 15年後. So the quotation particle actually only applies to that, I think.

Also, 現実のA is ‘real A’. (EDIT: I’ll need to discuss this with a friend though, because that’s what the dictionary tells me, but my kanji knowledge is giving me an additional nuance, and IDK if it’s important…) 現実の is like an adjective. ‘The reality of A’ would be Aの現実. Otherwise though, looks good. :+1:

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I’ve never read someone on the internet go: “ok, you’re right, I change my mind”. As adults we grow attached to our ideas for dear life. Intellectual jousting is fine, but that’s about it. Might be proven wrong!

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