Reading ブラックジャックによろしく manga exercises (p14-and up)

That was thanks to クレヨンしんちゃん reading exercises that Shannon8 did some time ago. There were lots of imperative forms and so I get practice recognizing them.

(That’s also the nice thing of those reading exercises with real Japanese texts; we are exposed to forms that are usually not shown on the average teaching material)

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14 :writing_hand:

その通り〔だ〕
Since 通り【とおり】means “avenue”, I think Saitou is saying:
:speech_balloon: “It’ll be that way”
Or said differently: “Have it your way then”.


(I’ll also add this at the beginning of the thread).

:pray:Please remember to vote. It takes less than 5 seconds and insures the activity is democratically run.


15.

15

難しい事『は』分かんね

:speech_balloon: “It’s a difficult thing, you understand…”

お任せします

:thought_balloon:お任せ :heavy_plus_sign: する is a noun/verb which means “leave a decision to someone else”.

:speech_balloon: “We leave the decision up to you [doctors]”


16.

白鳥先生:

《延命処置『は』中止させていただきます》

Explanations

延命処置: is a compound noun (複合名詞), a combination of 延命+処置:
Life prolonging measures.
『は』: topic
中止させて: v. suspension in the causative.
Causative:

Verbs conjugated into the causative form are used to indicate an action that someone makes happen. Like Captain Picard so succinctly puts it, the causative verb means to “make it so”.
-Tae Kim

So I guess here it means:
:speech_balloon: “make it so that the life prolonging treatment are stopped”.
いただきます gives a connotation of “please accept”.

I think the person who says this is actually Shiratori. He’s replying to Saitou’s question.

This is probably the closer interpretation. その通り means ‘that is so’/‘that is the case’, which is quite close to the literal translation (‘it is that way’). その is used, as you might have guessed, because he’s referring to Saitou’s statement (‘your’ statement, from Shiratori’s perspective). A less literal translation would be ‘it is as you have said’, but that adds elements that weren’t in the original sentence. Another way for Shiratori to reply would have been 言った通りだ, which is closer to ‘it is as you have said’, but literally is ‘it is the way you said.’

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17.

斎藤: 《おじいさん…あなた『は』本当『に』意識『が』ないんですか…?》

本当に: really, truly;
When a -na adjective is followed by に, is に always an adverbial?;
意識 is the subject as indicated by が.
なんですか: it is assuredly that;

Edit: fixed typo.

To me, it looks more like “I don’t understand difficult things” (i.e. This is too complicated for me to make a decision on my own) which is why he is leaving the decisions to the doctor (お任せします。)

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Causative + いただきます = “I will [verb]” in humble speech. The causitive form is “let [verb] happen”; いただく means “to receive” and is commonly used with requests and permission → 中止させていただきます literally means “I will receive being let (allowed) to stop the treatment”, so a fancy way to say “I’ll stop […]” basically.

It actually says ないんですか :slight_smile:

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Holy smokes, a newcomer! @TamanegiNoKame, welcome! I had to double check to make sure it wasn’t one of the regulars.

If it were “I don’t understand difficult things” wouldn’t it:

難しい事『を』分かんね

Not that I’m questioning your interpretation mind you. I’m asking the question to better understand myself.

Unless it’s more of a general statement as in:
:speech_balloon: « Difficult things [topic] I don’t understand them. »
I was a bit lazy regarding 分かんね. I figured it was slang for something but didn’t push my investigation further. I suppose it’s a slang version of 分からないね?

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The “causative form” isn’t that clear to me. Ok it means “let verb happen” but it what sense? I’m not familiar with this concept in general. Is it in the sense of allowing something?

“Let him come” would be a causative in English?

I googled causative and got the following definition:

Causative verbs are verbs that show the reason that something happened. They do not indicate something the subject did for themselves, but something the subject got someone or something else to do for them. The causative verbs are: let (allow, permit), make (force, require), have, get, and help.

At least this :top: definition takes the “cause” in causative into consideration.

This being said, I can’t reach a common ground between:

ⓐ to let “x” verb happen;
ⓑ The reason that something happened;

My brain doesn’t draw a connection between the two. It’s the truth and nothing but the truth.

難しい事は (As for difficult things), 分かんね (I don’t understand them).
A lot of the time, you do not need to say “I” in Japanese to have it be the subject.
分かる is intransitive which means it won’t have を structures with it.
は and が are really tricky to get used to.
They have a variety of uses and nuances.
Hopefully that explanation was at least a little helpful.
Good luck with the rest! :turtle: :wink:

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Hmm… I just checked 分かる and it is intransitive. I would have thought it would have been transitive. Interestingly, “to understand” is transitive in English.

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You’re on the right track; in Japanese, causative verbs are used as either “to make x happen” or “to let x happen”. For example:

“To make x happen”: あの映画はとても悲しくてみんなを泣かせた = “that movie was very sad and made everyone cry”
The causitive verb form 泣かせた (from 泣く) expresses that the movie caused everyone to cry.

“To let x happen”: お母さんが電気を消して、疲れた子供を寝させた = “the mother switched off the lights and let the tired child sleep”
Here, it’s a bit harder to imagine because you can’t really replace “let” with “caused (to)”, but the causative 寝させた (from 寝る) expresses that the mother, by turning off the lights and not waking him, caused the child to be asleep/continue sleeping.
Note this sentence could also mean “to make him sleep”; the causative form can be a bit ambiguous, so you have to rely on context sometimes (in this case, since the child is tired, “let sleep” is more likely).

ⓐ So cause in the sense of “triggering something”.

Yes, that’s harder to make sense if for sure. It’d be a bit of stretch to shoehorn “cause” the kid to sleep here but if it’s how it is, the it’s how it is.

In that case though it doesn’t have the connotation of “allowing, permitting”, it’s more like:

ⓑ cause→effect;
…but yes, that second function is still unclear to me. I mean, « causative » doesn’t evoke a super clear concept to me, I just have a vague idea of what it stands for.

Edit: no actually there is the notion of allowing something, from Japanese stacks:

Causative

先生学生 に 会話を 覚えさせました

( “Director” ) は ( “Cast”) に ( “Action” ).

The professor made the students memorize the dialogue.

The “director” decides what is allowed and what is to be done. Marked with は or が.

The “cast” performs the action. Usually goes with に.

The “action” is described with a causative form of the verb.

As a side note @Zizka, it may interest you to know that it’s the same in German with the verb “lassen”. (Not gonna give examples so I don’t confuse/overload anyone. It’s just in case you’re familiar with German.) Basically the causative in Japanese is a mix between “laisser + infinitif” and “faire + infinitif” in French.

Ah ok if it can be summarized as something this succinct then that’s awesome, I’ll take it.

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I think that construct comes from the fact that the do-er of the action, and the triggerer (the one willing to do) can be different.

  • 食べる : plain transitive form; the one that eats does it because he wants to.
  • 食べられる : passive/potential form; something is eaten (and is the grammatical subject); the will of the one eating is ignored; eating “just happens”; or something can be eaten (it is the grammatical subject), again, the “will” is transferred to the thing that can be eaten, in a sense.
  • 食べさせる : causative form; the action of eating is done by the one that eats, as in the plain form; but the will to do the action is from someone else.

In French causative is done by “faire + V” (to make V happen) or “laisser + V” (to let V happen).

(私が)魚を食べる : (I) eat a fish
(私に)魚が食べられる : (I) can eat a fish
(私を)魚が食べられる : A fish is eaten (by me)
母が(私に)魚を食べさせる : My mother makes/lets (me) eat a fish

(in last example, using 母は would be more natural, but it hides the grammatical role, so I put 母が)

Allowing or requiring is, I think, understood from context; the distinction is not done, grammatically speaking, in Japanese.

(PS: they can be combined; but I haven’t yet gone so far; so I don’t know what exactly would be the meaning nor the grammar, of such things as 食べられさせる or 食べさせられる )

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@Zizka It works like this actually. Remember my ‘R sounds can become ん’ rule? This is one of the examples I mentioned. Here’s the process: 分からない→分かんない→分かんねー Usually, the last syllable is lengthened into ‘nee’, but sometimes, you can just guess from context even without the lengthened syllable. Here, I think the man says, ‘I don’t understand (such) difficult things. I’ll leave it to you.’

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Re: 17 post-typo

おじいさん…あなた『は』本当『に』意識『が』ないんですか…?

I think I’ve asked this before so feel free to link me to a previous explanation but how does 本当に relate to 意識(いしき)?I can’t figure out how an adverb modifies a noun. I’m taking 本当に in its descriptive position of 意識(いしき).

Should I process this instead by applying the adverb 本当に to the verb of the sentence?

:speech_balloon:"Old man, are you really unconscious/not conscious?"

I’d say that in Japanese, it’s just that adverbs apply to the phrase (technically ‘clause’) in which they are found. 本当に actually modifies ない here. So yes, you’ve got it. I guess the reason it’s kinda confusing is that in English and French, adverbs are usually near verbs (or at the end of the sentence), but that doesn’t always happen in Japanese.

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