Reading ブラックジャックによろしく manga exercises (p14-and up)

Yes, I intended that post as a last hurrah. A post meant to say, ‘Logically speaking, you can’t argue with this, because if you do, then according to you, even Japanese people are wrong about their own language.’ I wanted to give him the benefit of doubt, because maybe he genuinely didn’t understand the earlier posts or the flaws in his logic.

Anyway, even if he replies, if I see it’s something unreasonable, I will just leave/mute the thread. It’s definitely much easier to leave straightaway instead of writing 3000+ words, but I guess one challenge that motivated me was to translate the Japanese dictionary entry. (There were a lot of grammatical terms inside that I didn’t know.) The other challenge that motivated me was ‘Can I write 3000 words and still stay logically coherent when I’m tired?’

Whatever it is, I’m really thankful for this little circle on the forums. I’ll go to sleep now. Thanks. :slight_smile:


13 Hast Been Claimed…


C’est alors que Saitou, furieux, se retourna vers le docteur Shirotori (dit l’oiseau blanc) et répliqua:

:heavy_check_mark:Nouveau vocabulaire:
それじゃあ:Well then, in that situation, if that’s the case;
だまって:~て form of the verb だまる, to use ayamadori’s word, to link stuff :slight_smile: In other words, Saitou says:

:speech_balloon:In that case I will keep silent and

()ぬ:v. to die, nominalised by の I assume;
を direct object of ()て: v. to look, also in ~て…
:speech_balloon: …and look at death…

I think normally I would use a gerund to nominalise a verb but here I felt like ‘‘death’’ would be better so I went with that. What’s the worse that can happen? A mistake? That wouldn’t be bad, it’d just point in the right direction.

:grey_question:Which brings the question… what’s ろって? I assumed it was yet another ~て form but nothing came up when I looked it up. Normally it would tell me it’s an inflection of a verb or another but nothing this time around.

Since it’s followed by ()う it could be something like a quotation と but I’m just speculating here, doing some detective work if you will. I mean, って does come up as you said, he said but that doesn’t tell me what the ろ does here.

The rest is business as usual, んだ good old casual のだ。



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Maybe the imperative of いる (for 5-dan verbs the imperative is the stem with the “e” vowel; but for 1-dan ones it is the stem + ろ : 飲め = drink! 食べろ = eat!)
So: 見てろ = 見ていろ, an imperative for the action of seeing during a continuous span of time.

So, Saitou says to Shiratori something like “So, in that case, you order me keep silent and to keep watching at death”.

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MDR :laughing:

You’ve got it! ‘So, you’re telling me to stay silent and keep watching [as] death [occurs]…?’
I used ‘you’re telling’ and ‘[as] death [occurs]’ only because they’re more natural in English. Of course, in the Japanese, it’s just ‘you say’ and ‘death’. But yes, good job for thinking of the imperative of いる.

Off-topic update

The discussion from yesterday went well. There are reasonable people on forums after all! I hope it all gets wrapped up amicably.

That was thanks to クレヨンしんちゃん reading exercises that Shannon8 did some time ago. There were lots of imperative forms and so I get practice recognizing them.

(That’s also the nice thing of those reading exercises with real Japanese texts; we are exposed to forms that are usually not shown on the average teaching material)

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14 :writing_hand:

Since 通り【とおり】means “avenue”, I think Saitou is saying:
:speech_balloon: “It’ll be that way”
Or said differently: “Have it your way then”.

(I’ll also add this at the beginning of the thread).

:pray:Please remember to vote. It takes less than 5 seconds and insures the activity is democratically run.




:speech_balloon: “It’s a difficult thing, you understand…”


:thought_balloon:お任せ :heavy_plus_sign: する is a noun/verb which means “leave a decision to someone else”.

:speech_balloon: “We leave the decision up to you [doctors]”





延命処置: is a compound noun (複合名詞), a combination of 延命+処置:
Life prolonging measures.
『は』: topic
中止させて: v. suspension in the causative.

Verbs conjugated into the causative form are used to indicate an action that someone makes happen. Like Captain Picard so succinctly puts it, the causative verb means to “make it so”.
-Tae Kim

So I guess here it means:
:speech_balloon: “make it so that the life prolonging treatment are stopped”.
いただきます gives a connotation of “please accept”.

I think the person who says this is actually Shiratori. He’s replying to Saitou’s question.

This is probably the closer interpretation. その通り means ‘that is so’/‘that is the case’, which is quite close to the literal translation (‘it is that way’). その is used, as you might have guessed, because he’s referring to Saitou’s statement (‘your’ statement, from Shiratori’s perspective). A less literal translation would be ‘it is as you have said’, but that adds elements that weren’t in the original sentence. Another way for Shiratori to reply would have been 言った通りだ, which is closer to ‘it is as you have said’, but literally is ‘it is the way you said.’

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斎藤: 《おじいさん…あなた『は』本当『に』意識『が』ないんですか…?》

本当に: really, truly;
When a -na adjective is followed by に, is に always an adverbial?;
意識 is the subject as indicated by が.
なんですか: it is assuredly that;

Edit: fixed typo.

To me, it looks more like “I don’t understand difficult things” (i.e. This is too complicated for me to make a decision on my own) which is why he is leaving the decisions to the doctor (お任せします。)


Causative + いただきます = “I will [verb]” in humble speech. The causitive form is “let [verb] happen”; いただく means “to receive” and is commonly used with requests and permission → 中止させていただきます literally means “I will receive being let (allowed) to stop the treatment”, so a fancy way to say “I’ll stop […]” basically.

It actually says ないんですか :slight_smile:

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Holy smokes, a newcomer! @TamanegiNoKame, welcome! I had to double check to make sure it wasn’t one of the regulars.

If it were “I don’t understand difficult things” wouldn’t it:


Not that I’m questioning your interpretation mind you. I’m asking the question to better understand myself.

Unless it’s more of a general statement as in:
:speech_balloon: « Difficult things [topic] I don’t understand them. »
I was a bit lazy regarding 分かんね. I figured it was slang for something but didn’t push my investigation further. I suppose it’s a slang version of 分からないね?

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The “causative form” isn’t that clear to me. Ok it means “let verb happen” but it what sense? I’m not familiar with this concept in general. Is it in the sense of allowing something?

“Let him come” would be a causative in English?

I googled causative and got the following definition:

Causative verbs are verbs that show the reason that something happened. They do not indicate something the subject did for themselves, but something the subject got someone or something else to do for them. The causative verbs are: let (allow, permit), make (force, require), have, get, and help.

At least this :top: definition takes the “cause” in causative into consideration.

This being said, I can’t reach a common ground between:

ⓐ to let “x” verb happen;
ⓑ The reason that something happened;

My brain doesn’t draw a connection between the two. It’s the truth and nothing but the truth.

難しい事は (As for difficult things), 分かんね (I don’t understand them).
A lot of the time, you do not need to say “I” in Japanese to have it be the subject.
分かる is intransitive which means it won’t have を structures with it.
は and が are really tricky to get used to.
They have a variety of uses and nuances.
Hopefully that explanation was at least a little helpful.
Good luck with the rest! :turtle: :wink:

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Hmm… I just checked 分かる and it is intransitive. I would have thought it would have been transitive. Interestingly, “to understand” is transitive in English.

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You’re on the right track; in Japanese, causative verbs are used as either “to make x happen” or “to let x happen”. For example:

“To make x happen”: あの映画はとても悲しくてみんなを泣かせた = “that movie was very sad and made everyone cry”
The causitive verb form 泣かせた (from 泣く) expresses that the movie caused everyone to cry.

“To let x happen”: お母さんが電気を消して、疲れた子供を寝させた = “the mother switched off the lights and let the tired child sleep”
Here, it’s a bit harder to imagine because you can’t really replace “let” with “caused (to)”, but the causative 寝させた (from 寝る) expresses that the mother, by turning off the lights and not waking him, caused the child to be asleep/continue sleeping.
Note this sentence could also mean “to make him sleep”; the causative form can be a bit ambiguous, so you have to rely on context sometimes (in this case, since the child is tired, “let sleep” is more likely).

ⓐ So cause in the sense of “triggering something”.

Yes, that’s harder to make sense if for sure. It’d be a bit of stretch to shoehorn “cause” the kid to sleep here but if it’s how it is, the it’s how it is.

In that case though it doesn’t have the connotation of “allowing, permitting”, it’s more like:

ⓑ cause→effect;
…but yes, that second function is still unclear to me. I mean, « causative » doesn’t evoke a super clear concept to me, I just have a vague idea of what it stands for.

Edit: no actually there is the notion of allowing something, from Japanese stacks:


先生学生 に 会話を 覚えさせました

( “Director” ) は ( “Cast”) に ( “Action” ).

The professor made the students memorize the dialogue.

The “director” decides what is allowed and what is to be done. Marked with は or が.

The “cast” performs the action. Usually goes with に.

The “action” is described with a causative form of the verb.

As a side note @Zizka, it may interest you to know that it’s the same in German with the verb “lassen”. (Not gonna give examples so I don’t confuse/overload anyone. It’s just in case you’re familiar with German.) Basically the causative in Japanese is a mix between “laisser + infinitif” and “faire + infinitif” in French.

Ah ok if it can be summarized as something this succinct then that’s awesome, I’ll take it.

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