Reading ブラックジャックによろしく manga exercises (p14-and up)

By the way as an aside, I’ve been looking into other language communities where there could be more participation from the members. As my therapist says, I’m obsessed with performance and always try to find something better.


Duo Lingo: it continues to go downhill. Out of ten topics, one is language related.
Jisho forum: the last message dates back to 2015 so it’s pretty much dead.
Japanese Language Stack Exchange: an accurate and reliable source of information and usually with quick answers. Due to its format, it’d be impossible to run the activity over there.
Word Reference Forum: my first impression was that it was very martially run (as in military style). It’s not a bad thing, I mean, it has advantages but I’ve asked the moderation and it’d be impossible to run the activity there. Each thread must be about a single question/translation aspect.
Reddit: learn Japanese: I’ve never used reddit in my life but again, judging from the format, it wouldn’t be possible to run the activity there.
Japanese Page Forum: dead link, doesn’t exist anymore.
Japan Reference: very small active user base in grammar. I’m not under the impression this is where people would join in and participate in the activity.
Japanesepod101 forum: dead, hasn’t seen any activity for months.
Hiragana Ninja: dead forum, no activity in years.

And that’s about the first page and a half of google. I haven’t tested what comes on the second page but that often proves not to be worthwhile.

9 (claimed)

:writing_hand: Transcription:

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Just speculation of mine; but maybe he is saying that he has gone so far as doing that.

Also, やるなといった ending in past form it is I think describing 腹膜透析.
やるな = the ~な at the end si probably the rough negative imperative;
so やるなといった腹膜透析 : the peritoneal dialysis I told you not to do.

やる な と いった 腹膜 透析 まで 行う なんて…
Decomposition: [quotation] to.say+past peritoneus.dialysis [until] [expletive]
=> You have performed even the peritoneal dialysis I told you not to do.
Whit なんて a sort of expletive “how!, what!”; usually at the beginning of sentence.

(PS: the wasabi translation wrote simply “I told you not to do that peritoneal dialysis.”)

EDIT: I see however that おこなう is in non-past form…
Is Shiratori referring to a dialysis that Saitou already did; or to one he may do in the future ?
Eg: What, you will perform even the peritoneal dialysis I told you not to do…
A way of hinting Saitou not to even try to do that ?

Again, for what it’s worth, Google translates produces: “Do not even do peritoneal dialysis
And if I remove the なんて at the end it changes to “Do even peritoneal dialysis

The key here is to understand what なんて adds to the sentence…




国民【こくみん】nation, people;
医療費【いりょうひ】medical fees;
無駄遣い【むだづかい】waste of money;

Last time we had two consecutive の YanagiPablo said that の(1) and の(2) were independently associated to C in:

…which in this case would mean:
:speech_balloon:It’s a waste of money for the nation and in medical fees.

Unless the successive の are related to each other:
:speech_balloon:It’s a waste of the nation’s medical fees

くどい: tedious, 〜い adj.;
よう: appearing, looking;
だが: but, however;
単なる【たんなる】mere, simple;
:thinking: for this one, I first thought it was 単+なる(to become);
延命【えんめい】life lengthening;

:speech_balloon:It looks tedious but life lengthening measures is a waste of the nation’s medical resources/fees
(If it’s wrong please don’t tell me the answer, tell me where I’m wrong so I can figure out for myself).

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Your interpretation is correct, I think. The なんて means ‘something like that’. It can be condescending, but it depends on the situation. Here… I don’t think it is. I think the whole sentence translates as ‘Going so far as to do the peritoneal dialysis that I said not to do, or anything like that…’. It works well with what comes next, which is roughly ‘This may seem repetitive, but procedures just for the sake of prolonging life are a waste of (the money received through) citizens’ medical expenses.’ (I’m adding the spoiler for Zizka’s sake, but his translation is correct. I just wouldn’t say ‘looks’. Maybe ‘sounds’ or ‘seems’. Also, ‘tedious’ isn’t the only definition of くどい. There’s something slightly better. The meaning is close enough though.) He’s using ‘doing the peritoneal dialysis’ as an example of something useless in his opinion.

I had time to read before it was spoilered :stuck_out_tongue:, doesn’t matter :slight_smile:.

I think in English it doesn’t really make sense to me however.
:speech_balloon:What, you will perform even the peritoneal dialysis I told you not to do…

:speech_balloon:This may seem repetitive but procedures for the sake of prolonging life are a waste the citizen’s medical expenses.

I don’t understand the だが here and it’s relationship with “this may seem repetitive”. What may seem repetitive? That he’s telling Saitou again that he’s wasting time/resources on the old man? Is that it? Is it in the sense of:

:speech_balloon:To the risk of repeating myself…

Also, medical fees can’t be wasted in my understanding of things. You can waste money on medical fees but the fees themselves can’t really be « wasted » in my perception of things.




白鳥先生: Saitou’s tutor, the man with the glasses who has a very utilitarian view of life and human beings in general.
医者『が』doctor + subject particle;
患者『を』patient + direct object particle;
:thinking: so that’s the verb 助ける【たるける】to help with a 〜よう suffix. Am I supposed to interpret this as “seem to help”? Is that something I can do with all verbs, adding 〜よう at the verb ending to express “seem to”?

するのが: knowledge check :ledger:
The の here turns する “to do” into a gerund “doing”. Actually a nominaliser should be called a gerundifier (it the term existed!)

そんな: so much, so, like that;
いけない: wrong, not good: いけない事: wrong thing.

:speech_balloon:Doctor Shirotori, is it a wrong thing for a doctor to seem to help and do other things like that for a patient.

Pretty confident about that one. Just 助けよう which might end up biting mon derrière.

Yes, it’s something like that. ‘At the risk of repeating myself…’. I think it’s because he has said before that procedures that just extend someone’s life (or rather, to keep them alive when their body wouldn’t otherwise be able to keep going) are a waste of resources (in his opinion). I agree with you though. ‘Wasting fees’ sounds strange in English. I think, however, since they mention 国民, that it might be a reference to the stuff that citizens have already paid as part of a national programme, perhaps through taxes, so there’s already a pool of money dedicated to ‘medical fees’. You’ll have to check how Japan’s healthcare system works (which is something I don’t know much about right now).

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As @Jonapedia mentioned, ~なんて = “things like ~”. That doesn’t work well in English though so I like to translate it as “to think that ~”: “to think that you’d go as far as to perform the peritoneal dialysis I told you not to do”. It does sound quite condescending to my ears, like “I can’t believe you did that”.

Bingo. くどいようだが = くどいようですが = “It may seem like I’m repeating myself, but…” in a “may I remind you that…” sort of way.

“Fees” might not be the right word, 国民医療費 is the national medical care expenditure; Shiratori is saying that life-prolonging treatments are a waste of budget/tax money. (無駄遣い: 無駄 ‘useless’ + 遣い, fancy kanji for 使い)

~ようとする = “to attempt to ~”. For ichidan verbs, replace る with よう; for godan verbs, replace the last う-sound with おう (e.g. 救う→救おう, 治す→治そう).
To express “seem to”, take the masu-stem and add そう, which turns it into a na-adjective: 助けそうな医師 -> “a doctor who seems to help/save [the patient]”.

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@ayamedori @Jonapedia
So helpful! Thank you!

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11 claiming:



✩New Vocabulary✩
こういう:such, this sort of…;
何百(なんびゃく) : hundreds;

:speech_balloon:I’ve also seen hundreds of patients like this one
The only thing I’m not 100% is that も meaning “even” there. Otherwise I’m 100% final answer Shannon would be proud of.

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As it follows a quantity (何百も) maybe it is this 3rd definition (from :

even; as much as; as many as; as far as; as long as; no less than; no fewer than (​used for emphasis or to express absence of doubt regarding a quantity, etc.)

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✩New Vocabulary✩
死『に』ゆく(もの):guessing: a person who is about to die? Lit. death (destination) moving person.
静かに:quiet+adverbial に=quietly
みとる:v. to perceive, to understand
べき:should, must, ought to…
:speech_balloon:You should perceive calmly a person who is about to die…
Final but not sure answer.

Your interpretations are spot on, except for one: みとる, in my dictionary, is 看取る, and means 'to be at someone’s bedside and care for him/her". Your understanding for 死にゆく者 is also correct. ゆく is another form of 行く(いく). Thus, the translation should instead by ‘You should quietly care for a person who is dying/about to die.’ Well done.

Side note: please, I beg of you all, know your definitions if you’re going to use technical terms.

Off-topic rant with a link to the relevant post and thread. (I'm sorry, I need to vent. But really, please, don't do such things...)

The reason I’m still online is because I spent 2h7min writing a 3334-word post on what a ‘part of speech’ is because somebody just kept insisting that ‘suffix’ ought to be a ‘part of speech’ = a ‘word class’ (according to him) and refused (or so it seems) to check the actual definition of the word.

Here’s the post (article/mini-treatise, really) about what ‘part of speech’ means if any of you are interested. In it, I translate the Japanese definition of 品詞=‘part of speech’ in order to explain why he was wrong since he kept saying, in essence, ‘Japanese is different from English, so your English definitions aren’t valid’. I’m exhausted right now, and I hope I don’t wake up tomorrow morning to see another reply for him containing yet another contradiction that clearly means he didn’t read my reply or the links I included.


Hmm… sorry you feel that way. As I said, people seldom change their mind about their convictions so I fear the time you’re investing won’t have much of an impact. Even if you manage to make a point, there’s always a way to move the goals, cite different sources say you interpret words differently, etc… At the end of the day, why not simply let go?

Thanks for the feedback! It was not an easy sentence.

(considering he’s already replying, he likely didn’t read your message which further demonstrates that people would rather ignore data in order to safeguard their convictions).


Yes, I intended that post as a last hurrah. A post meant to say, ‘Logically speaking, you can’t argue with this, because if you do, then according to you, even Japanese people are wrong about their own language.’ I wanted to give him the benefit of doubt, because maybe he genuinely didn’t understand the earlier posts or the flaws in his logic.

Anyway, even if he replies, if I see it’s something unreasonable, I will just leave/mute the thread. It’s definitely much easier to leave straightaway instead of writing 3000+ words, but I guess one challenge that motivated me was to translate the Japanese dictionary entry. (There were a lot of grammatical terms inside that I didn’t know.) The other challenge that motivated me was ‘Can I write 3000 words and still stay logically coherent when I’m tired?’

Whatever it is, I’m really thankful for this little circle on the forums. I’ll go to sleep now. Thanks. :slight_smile:


13 Hast Been Claimed…


C’est alors que Saitou, furieux, se retourna vers le docteur Shirotori (dit l’oiseau blanc) et répliqua:

:heavy_check_mark:Nouveau vocabulaire:
それじゃあ:Well then, in that situation, if that’s the case;
だまって:~て form of the verb だまる, to use ayamadori’s word, to link stuff :slight_smile: In other words, Saitou says:

:speech_balloon:In that case I will keep silent and

()ぬ:v. to die, nominalised by の I assume;
を direct object of ()て: v. to look, also in ~て…
:speech_balloon: …and look at death…

I think normally I would use a gerund to nominalise a verb but here I felt like ‘‘death’’ would be better so I went with that. What’s the worse that can happen? A mistake? That wouldn’t be bad, it’d just point in the right direction.

:grey_question:Which brings the question… what’s ろって? I assumed it was yet another ~て form but nothing came up when I looked it up. Normally it would tell me it’s an inflection of a verb or another but nothing this time around.

Since it’s followed by ()う it could be something like a quotation と but I’m just speculating here, doing some detective work if you will. I mean, って does come up as you said, he said but that doesn’t tell me what the ろ does here.

The rest is business as usual, んだ good old casual のだ。



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Maybe the imperative of いる (for 5-dan verbs the imperative is the stem with the “e” vowel; but for 1-dan ones it is the stem + ろ : 飲め = drink! 食べろ = eat!)
So: 見てろ = 見ていろ, an imperative for the action of seeing during a continuous span of time.

So, Saitou says to Shiratori something like “So, in that case, you order me keep silent and to keep watching at death”.

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MDR :laughing:

You’ve got it! ‘So, you’re telling me to stay silent and keep watching [as] death [occurs]…?’
I used ‘you’re telling’ and ‘[as] death [occurs]’ only because they’re more natural in English. Of course, in the Japanese, it’s just ‘you say’ and ‘death’. But yes, good job for thinking of the imperative of いる.

Off-topic update

The discussion from yesterday went well. There are reasonable people on forums after all! I hope it all gets wrapped up amicably.

That was thanks to クレヨンしんちゃん reading exercises that Shannon8 did some time ago. There were lots of imperative forms and so I get practice recognizing them.

(That’s also the nice thing of those reading exercises with real Japanese texts; we are exposed to forms that are usually not shown on the average teaching material)

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14 :writing_hand:

Since 通り【とおり】means “avenue”, I think Saitou is saying:
:speech_balloon: “It’ll be that way”
Or said differently: “Have it your way then”.