Re Zero Volume 11 week 3

Me too. :slight_smile:

Subaru rant

I like that Subaru has flaws - I just wish they weren’t so omnipresent! :joy: I admit I kind of forget that he started out as a shut in, really, and that the transfer into another world didn’t magically fix him. Which is good, I don’t think that should happen. A lot of his ‘progress’ is based on these fixed ideas he has about his role in this other world, and not based on anything solid. It’s only natural there will be setbacks. He just gets so illogical! And to have him revert back into old habits after ‘improving himself’ got super frustrating after it happened a bunch of times.

I mean, when I stop to think about it of course those setbacks happen.

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I guess that’s also one issue I have. He feels completely unreal to me. I guess you also would not like reading page after page about the angst of a bread-hating purple duck. Definitely not a perfect hero :ok_hand:
(My point is that, because Subaru doesn’t feel real, his emotions are completely unrelatable and do not feel like they matter).
It’s half his attitude (he never changes his speech register, never adapt his mannerisms) and half how people react to it (it doesn’t get punished for it). Now, during the 4 chapter of last book, we saw what would happen if you did that in real life. It looked fairly reasonable, so it’s not like the author has some weird conception that it’s an appropriate behavior.
When Emilia got mad at him and they had a fight, it also felt like a reasonable development (I won’t say realistic, but close). But that kind of backlash from the environment is rare and far between.

Uh, second place or not, I feel like 12% is crazy low for a main character.

? Where’s the logic here?
Also, yes, it does feel like Rem would be the best partner for Subaru, based on the if story.

None of the light novels I like have a character like Subaru either. I don’t know if their main character is supposed to be divisive or not though :thinking: I guess マイン from 本好き is?

I agree a lot with that, and I would add that the problem (for me) lies in the execution by the author here. It’s fine that Subaru runs in circles emotionally, the problem is that we are getting a detailed account of each lap. Once is good, twice is okay, third time is meh, and so on.

Anyway, I just want to reassert that I like the plot and the world, in particular in the context of 死に戻り. We get to see all the moving parts in a given situation and how to best combine them. I just wish I could relate to the main character. At the same time, I guess most of the issue comes from the fact I’m not part of the intended demographic.

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Feel like we have to disagree again. I feel like Subaru feel real because of his emotions. If after 3-4 loops he would be perfect it would feel kinda forced. Having to live his own death, which seem really painful, is something that has it’s mental toll.

By that you mean he should change the way he speaks depending on the people he speaks to or just change as a whole? A lot of people barely change any of this in a lifetime. If you are talking about depending on who he speaks to, well he is a shut-in. I don’t expect him to know the entire book of etiquette and manner of another world. He is someone driven by his emotion and he moves accordingly.

Yes!!! Finally an agreement.

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On a side note, I really wonder why you keep talking about perfection. We already had that discussion and we agreed.

Yes. And get punished (socially) if he fails to do so. Like, you know, in real life. The weird social invulnerability he has is one of the things that breaks my suspension of disbelief.

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He is getting punished isn’t he? An example was getting rejected by everyone when he asked for help in arc 3. Emilia being angry at him like you mentioned. Getting killed by Elsa arc 1. Fighting Julius in arc 3. I don’t see what you want more and what you mean by that.

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No, he is not. Based on your examples, you are missing my point. (By the way, just in case, I want to say that I do enjoy our conversation. Tone is not clear over the Internet, and I’m afraid of coming out as aggressive)

That’s not because of his attitude, that’s because he was missing critical information about the situation. Proof: he got over it once he knew about it without changing his attitude. As a mind experiment, imagine him during the first loop acting in a reasonable way. Would they have helped him? No. So it’s not related to his attitude.

I was actually bundling that with Emilia, as it’s part of the same “event”, but yes, that’s one. And pretty much the only one as much as I can remember right now.

I… don’t see what you mean by that. How is it connected to the current discussion?

same but sometime I do get too heated in an argument/debate

In the situation with Priscillia, she hated his attitude which made her hate him. If he had a better attitude maybe she would have helped him. The feet licking thingy.

In one loop Elsa admitted defeat she was about to go away before Subaru decided to blurt out the reason why he wanted the object they were bargaining about. If his attitude would have been different and he would have kept it secret he wouldn’t have been killed. He got killed by Ram because of his strange attitude(and smell)

But again his attitude saved him when talking with the villagers about the evacuation. Emilia bring him back because his attitude of saving her. I do get why he won’t change it that easily.

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Hardly. The problem was that he admitted defeat. If he had asked nicely, nothing would have changed. The foot part was to force him to back out.

But… that’s not an attitude problem. If he had used 丁寧語 he would still have been killed in your example. I still don’t get it.

That’s more a strange behavior than a strange attitude, but anyway, he would not have been killed without the smell, so that also does not count…

I have nothing to add, but for comic relief this sounded funny with the 氏 typo

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Thanks! I would ask how it happened, but I actually know. I’ve been typing a lot of 壬氏s recently (character from 薬屋のひとりごと), and since my IME does not know that name, I just type the kanji individually :sweat_smile: