I don’t think anyone who has gone through RTK 1 can say they know kanji entirely. As you’ve already know, they learn the meaning and how to recognize. Most people that do RTK 1 will just go through Core 2K/6K on Anki and learn the on-kun readings as they go through sentences. Anyone willing to do WaniKani after RTK 1 will pretty much have to start from the beginning.
Now, people who have gone through ~500 kanji via textbooks such as Genki, Minna no Nihongo, or Basic Kanji Book, they should know the meaning and the on-kun readings. They would really be the main target people for a secondary option of checking out kanji they already know.
Yes it is definitely interesting to think about. I have a friend who started using wanikani recently after studying Japanese on and off for a few years, she used RTK but never anki, and then also did a little bit of genki, so she had some prior knowledge. Since everyone uses so many different possibilities and combinations of learning kanji it makes it more difficult to gauge everything. I agree with you, I don’t think people can say they know it entirely after RTK 1, which is why I wondered how people would gauge their own knowledge by a “i know this” click instead of a test. I can obviously see how it would be frustrating for experienced users coming into wanikani having to start from scratch effectively, (I never had that problem since wanikani was the first kanji learning I ever had), but with so many variables it seems like it would be difficult to do it any other way?
Man this type of behavior from newcomers makes so sad. I have a sharp tongue too but at least ask before starting complaining. In the end it might not be for you but there are actual people working for it. Be a little patient and complete the first three free levels just like the site recommends you to and then have your opinion. Not from level 1.
At first, I thought this was a serious problem as well.
“C’mon, I’m not this slow at learning, just give me new stuff already.”
But when I finally unlocked my first set of kanji, I understood why the system was like that. Since I had gone through the radicals multiple times already, they were burned to my memory strongly. And now that the radicals were a piece of cake, I could see the meaning from the kanji very easily, and even the readings since they also relied on the radicals. Because I had memorized the radicals 100%, processing the new information was super quick. This is why I think the system works: slow repetition forces you to remember the newly taught information.
Only the first half of level 1 feels really slow. Until I started getting Kanji lessons, I was like “why am I learning stupid stuff like ‘Slide’”. Later levels have mostly radicals that are actual Kanji themselves, so they’re not really a problem as their usefulness is more obvious.
I could see an option to start at level 2 and get a huge 236 items level to start. For comparison, the current biggest level, Level 5, has 193 items. It would come with a disclaimer like
“You will start with 60 radical lessons, and may unlock around 150 lessons at once. Are you sure you want to do this?”
It would give an idea of what the workload is like when going at max speed if nothing else.
And if people feel it’s too much, there’s not much time lost from resetting during the free levels.
I also find it pretty slow but I’m only level 2 so I’m just riding it out… right now it’s free and doesn’t take up much of my time, so what do I care…? It’s definitely not just level 1 that’s slow though, level 2 feels very slow too and I imagine level 3 will also feel slow. This is coming from someone who has already learned around 2000 words though on my own time so of course there’s going to be some less useful stuff.
Right now I’m doing Wanikani + Anki + playing Story of Seasons in Japanese so I have enough to keep me busy either way. There’s lots of ways to fill up your time while you wait, a lot of people spend more than an hour on Wanikani every day, so it’ll come.
It’s going to pick up really soon. I’ve started about two months ago and stayed on top of my lessons at all times and now it actually takes me some effort to keep my reviews and lessons at zero every day. It doesn’t really matter if you “loose” a week or two in the beginning in the long run. Make sure to establish a good basis, learn the stories wanikani uses and get in the rhythm of checking/reviewing wanikani several times a day. Some of the mnemonics are quite weird or even annoying, but that’s what makes them work for me.
Hi James, I have also been living in Japan for quite a while and have studied a fair amount of Kanji before starting this. If your here its because like me you didn’t get it done the first time. Maybe we need to assess our approach to learning and spend the first few levels getting into some good habits and getting ready for the grind of really learning to read easily. While I do these first few levels I sometimes get vocab that I don’t know (some of it is pretty strange) and as it doesn’t take that much time you can ask study a textbook along side until it gets pretty difficult.
I felt no need to ask, I felt the need to complain because obviously this is an issue (it’s brought up so much) and WaniKani feels that it’s not.
24 hours in and I’m still on my first set of radicals for no real reason it seems. If I get every single one right on my third “review” of the exact same radicals then maybe they should give me the option to unlock more in a more speedy manner? Seems like padding to make the free version feel more substantial than it really is.
Are you familiar with SRS? You have to have gaps in the reviews that progressively get longer to confirm that someone has actually learned the content. If you just do 4 reviews in an hour, that’s not very different from checking 1 time.
Once you have hundreds of new items every week you will see the need to check that people learned the content before allowing them to proceed.
Padding? They would benefit more if it was faster in the earlier levels to get people hooked, get that reward center firing more often by unlocking levels faster. But they don’t, I’m assuming because they think people will learn better this way.
If you want to quit, quit. If not then… it’s free, you’re losing no money and barely any time since the reviews are quick for the first levels anyway. I spend like 5 minutes on my reviews, whereas I spend like 2 hours with Anki.
It’s not padding. It’s how SRS works. Maybe try googling “spaced repetition learning” and reading some articles about it, then reevaluate what you think the site is trying to do in that new enlightened context.
I totally agree with you and was in the same situation as you. It took me 4 months to get to a level where I can actually start learning something new and beneficial.
I have said this to them that they need to have an entry test to insert people at the level they are already at and allow them to individually mark kanji as fully mastered so that it does not show up in the reviews. Though I do agree it should be done by some sort of test.
Again I totally agree about your views on the radicals. They are ridiculous, they are a joke and they are of no benefit to me. I simply add “pass” or “fake” as a synonym and be done with them in all of the reviews. Their memorisation methods are of no use to me. When I read Japanese I do not want little stories going through my head about how to remember Kanji. I want it to be quick and fast.
By slowly adjusting and making my own changes to the radical synonyms I can bypass a lot of things and use my own methods to learn new Kanji. I come up with my own ways to memorise then and simply wait for the reviews.
The site will be of benefit to you when you get to the level you need to be at and I do strongly agree that there should be an entry test where all the Kanji you know well on a first attempt test should immediately be ticked of as either enlightened or burned.
I would say keep pushing it for a test feature to be introduced as many others will likely do the same and finally when it does happen it will be greatly appreciated.
Can we direct all the confused threads that will inevitably come to you? If you’re willing to handle that load, then I guess it would make the decision easier.
I think it’s worth saying that it’s not necessarily the best way for everyone. Different methods will click for different people.
I will say that I personally find it to be the best though. Especially because, as you said, it makes learning kanji readings a fairly automatic part of my study.
@OP: I also started with some background in Japanese from a minor in college (even though it had been roughly six years since I’d used Japanese in any serious way and I had forgotten many of the kanji I once knew), and though I also found the beginning slow, it ramps up into such a useful resource that I’m glad I stuck with it.
If you find something that better suits your needs in the immediate though, more power to you.
???
No one’s expecting you to always mentally check mnemonics while reading. They’re just a bridge to help you connect meanings and readings when you first learn the character. I sometimes find them useful and sometimes don’t, but there’s not a single kanji I’ve gotten up to Master+ on Wanikani that I see in the wild and pause to walk through the mnemonic.
Whether you use the mnemonics or not, the goal is to just wind up reading them as characters/letters, and you don’t need to fear that using the mnemonics at first will prevent that.
Children in Japan also learn kanji with visual and story mnemonics, by the way (at least early on). Obviously they’re not the same ones WK uses, since they learn in a different order and with different starting language knowledge, but the idea is the same–mnemonics help with memorization at the beginning, but the end effect is that the kanji can be read at a glance as a letter.
The thread reminds me of Louis CK’s “Everything is amazing and nobody’s happy” skit:
I hate to be an old codger here, but I can remember buying “Japanese for Busy People” in romaji with accompanying cassette tapes. Now I can review kanji in a spare moment on something in my pocket that’s smaller than a packet of cigarettes. OMG… WOW!!!
As a counter to the out-of-date comment made by a man who sexually assaulted women, progress is not impervious to criticism.
Again, I feel that the overwhelming dislike of this program’s early part is very much indicative of a problem that needs to be addressed in a more aggressive manner. Reading someone else saying that it took them four months for the program to progress to a useful level isn’t very encouraging.
I will keep with Wani Kani, but that is in spite of all the comments here, not because of them.