October 15 2021 Content Updates

I think the “endless” meaning is more of a meaning derived from vocab or a general nuance (vast, endless, huge, etc.). I added “huge” as an alternative, because that aligns with how the kanji is used in the word I learned before already (莫大 )

Not sure where the “greenhouse” came from. The kanji has nothing to do with greenhouses :smiley: .
In moments like this I’m really on the verge of sighing myself out of the window.

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Yeah, and it’s going to confuse people who don’t use the radical mnemonics or use their own mnemonics.

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I just really hope this doesn’t turn into another case of “machine”, but fortunately 莫 is not used as often.

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I’m sure there are other kanji on WK which are identical to the radical but don’t share the same meaning. Don’t think they need to be beholden to it so I don’t quite understand the rationale here.

Jisho lists the meanings as “must not, do not, be not”. :man_shrugging:t2:

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I personally think this would be a great opportunity for someone from the WK team to comment and explain. I’m sure at least @TofuguJenny does follow this thread closely.

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‘Greenhouse’ gets a definite no from me, unless it’s some really obscure meaning I don’t know about. As for ‘endless’… this word came to mind:

It exists in Chinese as well. However, it seems that this still uses the negative meaning of 莫, however, since it means that there is nothing bigger. Still, here’s something else I found in a monolingual Chinese dictionary:

(source: https://www.zdic.net/hans/莫)

(Side note: 漠 appears in words like 砂漠, ‘desert’.)

I’d say it’s just another case of kanji overlapping due to old meanings being transferred to newer, specialised kanji that now carry them. I still think it’s likely for negation to be the primary meaning in Japanese, however. It certainly seems that way from the words starting with 莫 in my dictionary, and honestly, the examples raised for the second kanji definition in my dictionary raise more examples of 莫 being used for the idea of desolation rather than the idea of vastness (though of course, the two meanings can be linked since being surrounded by vast emptiness can provoke feelings of desolation).

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image
Wiktionary also lists “late” and “end” (but no “endless”)

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Also chiming in about 莫. I think this has gone too far. Giving radicals fake names in order to facilitate remembering the kanji I can understand, although I do not support it fully. Giving the wrong meanings for kanji on a site that claims to teach kanji, I think is out of bounds.

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I’m not sure if it’s intentional. Could be they just copied the mnemonic from the radical and left it as is for the meaning of the kanji. Instead of giving it the meaning(s) it does have. If so, then it wasn’t checked properly and should be fixed asap.

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There are a few points/questions in this thread so let me try to answer them one by one!

慣れる

@galli_a You’re absolutely right, this shouldn’t be on the block list! In fact it was added to the allow list, and this was a typo in the OP. Sorry for the confusion. :bowing_woman:t3:

Accepted answers for 莫 and ナポレオン三世

Both of these were publishing glitches, which were (hopefully!) fixed for everyone on Friday/Saturday, depending on your timezone. :crossed_fingers:t2:

ルパン vs ナポレオン

We went with Napoleon because ルパン might be a harder guess for anyone not familiar with the series, and we try to avoid popular culture references to stay as universal as possible. There are also potential copyright issues with ルパン.

Meanings of kanji 莫

For this kanji, we initially went with the same meaning we had given to the radical, simply to reduce the learning burden. 莫 is used in the word 莫大 the overwhelming majority of the time these days, and many Japanese speakers only know 莫大 and not necessarily the meanings of the kanji 莫 alone. Our attitude was that it wasn’t really needed for reading proficiency.

After receiving feedback, though, we added the meaning “endless”. These are the (rather longwinded, sorry!) reasons for that choice over the various other meanings listed in dictionaries:

  • “endless” is the most well-known meaning, and fits best with the kanji’s only common word, 莫大 (huge)
  • the first meaning listed in Kanjipedia (くれ・ゆうぐれ) is uncommon and could create interference with 暮, and while the origin of these two kanji is shared, they are no longer interchangeable
  • the second meaning (ない etc) is very obscure for the kanji 莫 now. In old-fashioned writing, it is sometimes used in the word 莫れ(must not), but in modern writing it is usually in kana. If it’s written in kanji, the more common version is 勿れ.
  • the fourth meaning is also uncommon, and it doesn’t fit with the word 莫大
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Hi Jenny, thanks for the explanations and your work!

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@Mods Would you consider adding 明太子(めんたいこ) or just 明太(めんたい) as vocab? The めん reading isn’t practiced in other vocab, but 明太(めんたい) is a fairly common word, especially at conbini, where it often appears without furigana.

Since mentaiko is delicious, allowing WKers who visit/live in Japan to more easily order and enjoy this wonderful food would be a quality of life improvement

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Yeah, I found this troubling. Do you know of any other kanji (obscure, most likely) where WK just teaches… something that it doesn’t mean? Or is “greenhouse” the only one? I’d rather learn an obscure meaning than one that isn’t real.

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So far this is the only one.

I do appreciate what they are trying to do, though. They are adding more kanji and vocabs that may be useful, and 莫大 is certainly useful. The problem is that the kanji 莫 is mostly only used for 莫大, and its meaning is not very easy to translate to English.

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One more source that backs this up: 大辞林 has 「ものさびしいさま。はてしなく広いさま。」as the second meaning for this kanji. (It’s the second of two meanings. The first one being the negative.)

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There are 2 other kanji that have a similar problem:
https://www.wanikani.com/kanji/台 - machine (the kanji actually refers to a kind of flat surface, like a platform or pedestal; it being used as a counter for machines is a separate matter)
https://www.wanikani.com/kanji/豪 - luxurious (kanji means “powerful” or something along those lines)

The latter doesn’t matter as much as the first one which caused me quite some confusion when reading books.

Actually, there is another one:
https://www.wanikani.com/kanji/鑑 - model (the meaning defined by Jisho is a little imprecise, but based on the vocab it could mean “assess” or “appraise”; something related to judging)

The rest where the original meaning is imprecise I don’t really count since I would say these are fair game. 莫 would’ve been as well if only the “greenhouse” meaning was remotely related to the kanji.

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I’ll add those to the list to consider!

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There’s some inconsistency with the thread titles btw, the last one was “content additions.”

This is a definitely anal comment, but would you consider adding “rules” and “regulations” to the allow list for 規則? Right now, “rules” at least gives the "your answer was slightly off, which I find a bit annoying as the plural should be just fine.

Thank you mods for all your hard work as always!

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There’s some inconsistency with the thread titles btw, the last one was “content additions.”

If I’m understanding what you mean, they’re not exactly the same threads. The “content additions” thread is the ongoing list of items we’re planning to add, move, or hide. The “content update” threads are lists of all the changes made during that week.

I added them in this case since 規則 is so often translated into the plural (we wouldn’t be able to add the plural in all cases though :wink:).

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Ah, my bad. Thank you for the explanation!

Ty for adding those ones. I appreciate it! :slight_smile: