# Numbers? Help! **URL:** \ **Category:** Japanese Only (Beginners)\ **Created:** [July 26, 2021, 8:17pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711 "2021-07-26T20:17:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Need2Read](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/need2read/32/431825_2.png) [@Need2Read](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Need2Read)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 8:17pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/1 "2021-07-26T20:17:15Z")
I’m having a terrible time with learning numbers, and it’s driving me nuts. Is there a reason why they keep changing, based on numbers or months or days or people or things? Is there any pattern to when you use which version, or do we just have to memorize it all? (I’m only on level 2, so yeah. Noob.) Thanks for any tips! I understand the idea of counters, I’m ok with that, it’s when to use ni and when to use fu for two, when to use san vs mi for three, etc. ---
**Author:** ![will\_riker](https://cdck-file-uploads-global.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wanikanicommunity/original/3X/f/d/fd4c154120954695f788402f3bcf4e616499bc2d.png) [@will\_riker](https://community.wanikani.com/u/will_riker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 8:35pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/2 "2021-07-26T20:35:30Z")
This Tofugu article is a good rundown of all the various ways of counting that you need to understand: > **[Japanese Numbers and How to Count ALL of Them](https://www.tofugu.com/japanese/counting-in-japanese/)** > > Counting in Japanese goes deeper than 1, 2, 3. There are counting systems, idiomatic phrases, and alternate kanji. Learn them all and count like a person who knows how to count. ---
**Author:** ![plantron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/plantron/32/783203_2.png) [@plantron](https://community.wanikani.com/u/plantron)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/3 "2021-07-26T20:40:54Z")
In Japanese language, some numbers are read in the Chinese way, and some others in the Japanese way. Be glad that you’re not learning Korean. Otherwise you’d also be learning that the Chinese and Korean readings of numbers are sometimes mixed with each other. ---
**Author:** ![Gorbit99](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/gorbit99/32/7307_2.png) [@Gorbit99](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Gorbit99)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 8:42pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/4 "2021-07-26T20:42:27Z")
They don’t change that much, there are definitely patterns いち either stays that ( 一日いちにち), turns into いっ (一体いったい) or turns into ひと (一つひとつ). You can get a feel for it very quickly. ひと only happens in 3 words, 2 of which you’ve already learned. いっ and いち will depend on exactly which is easier to read. Same goes for most numbers, for most of them, you will have around 3 different readings, one of them being rarer. In english you would for example say two, twice and twenty. Same(ish) number, changes a lot. ---
**Author:** ![somebodyuknow2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/somebodyuknow2/32/336597_2.png) [@somebodyuknow2](https://community.wanikani.com/u/somebodyuknow2)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/5 "2021-07-26T21:24:08Z")
Essentially there’s three numbering systems: The chinese one, used for most numbers greater than 10 and with most counters, in general the most common one. It’s the typical ichi, ni, san, shi, go, roku, shichi, hachi, kyuu/ku, juu sequence with powers of ten going juu, hyaku, sen, man, etc. The twist is that 4 and 7 are considered unlucky due to associations with death (which is a homophone and also shi) so they are typically replaced with yon and nana from the next numbering system The old native one: used for numbers 1-10, the counters つ 日 and occasionally with some multiples of 10 (such as how twenty years old is not the chinese nijuusai, but retains the old word for 20 and is read hatachi). And lastly the english numbering system which should be pretty easy, it goes ワン ツウ etc (though anything above 2 is pretty rare, but i’ve seen bigger numbers in, like, tennis) it’s used in a bunch of odd places but is the rarest of the three. ---
**Author:** ![Leebo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/leebo/32/439476_2.png) [@Leebo](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Leebo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 10:02pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/6 "2021-07-26T22:02:56Z")
> [@Gorbit99](#): > > いち either stays that ( 一日いちにち), Though if we’re mentioning 一日, I would say it’s important to mention the ついたち reading. So, yeah… Even that one word has multiple readings, which aren’t interchangeable. Numbers are definitely tough. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Nekoski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/mike_nekoski/32/376615_2.png) [@Mike\_Nekoski](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Mike_Nekoski)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/7 "2021-07-26T22:30:15Z")
> [@somebodyuknow2](#): > > anything above 2 is pretty rare Ah, the Valve™ counting system. ---
**Author:** ![Belthazar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/belthazar/32/4469_2.png) [@Belthazar](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Belthazar)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 10:45pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/8 "2021-07-26T22:45:15Z")
> [@somebodyuknow2](#): > > though anything above 2 is pretty rare Except in pop-music-related anime, where it’s common to hear someone counting people in with ファイブ シックス セブン エイト 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sergiop](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/sergiop/32/189448_2.png) [@sergiop](https://community.wanikani.com/u/sergiop)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 11:00pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/9 "2021-07-26T23:00:03Z")
I think you posted to the wrong subtopic since your post is not written in Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![anon45962687](https://cdck-file-uploads-global.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wanikanicommunity/original/3X/f/d/fd4c154120954695f788402f3bcf4e616499bc2d.png) [@anon45962687](https://community.wanikani.com/u/anon45962687)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 11:05pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/10 "2021-07-26T23:05:19Z")
Details. New users can be allowed a few mistakes 😊 ---
**Author:** ![sergiop](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/sergiop/32/189448_2.png) [@sergiop](https://community.wanikani.com/u/sergiop)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 11:07pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/11 "2021-07-26T23:07:35Z")
Sure, but we still should point the mistakes so they can learn. ---
**Author:** ![Need2Read](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/need2read/32/431825_2.png) [@Need2Read](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Need2Read)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 11:21pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/12 "2021-07-26T23:21:35Z")
oh sorry sorry sorry! it suggested topics and I took them. 😔 ---
**Author:** ![sergiop](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/sergiop/32/189448_2.png) [@sergiop](https://community.wanikani.com/u/sergiop)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 11:27pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/13 "2021-07-26T23:27:10Z")
Don’t worry! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![somebodyuknow2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/somebodyuknow2/32/336597_2.png) [@somebodyuknow2](https://community.wanikani.com/u/somebodyuknow2)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 2:46am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/14 "2021-07-27T02:46:12Z")
Oh then can you help me i forgot if 3 is トリー or チリー I started and then dropped テニスの王子様 this week which is why i still have memories of people saying フィフティン•ラブ or サーティ•オール and of course there is that Mob Psycho opening where they just count ---
**Author:** ![Leebo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/leebo/32/439476_2.png) [@Leebo](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Leebo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 2:50am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/15 "2021-07-27T02:50:01Z")
> [@somebodyuknow2](#): > > Oh then can you help me i forgot if 3 is トリー or チリー Three in katakana would be スリー. ---
**Author:** ![x90PT](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/x90pt/32/488461_2.png) [@x90PT](https://community.wanikani.com/u/x90PT)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 4:04am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/16 "2021-07-27T04:04:50Z")
Seems very intimidating at first but it starts to make sense eventually. Just keep at it. Remember when I was audibly saying “what the fuck” to the screen, now I barely look at it. ---
**Author:** ![fallynleaf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/fallynleaf/32/393300_2.png) [@fallynleaf](https://community.wanikani.com/u/fallynleaf)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 4:59am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/17 "2021-07-27T04:59:24Z")
One resource for helping with numbers is [this website](https://langpractice.com/japanese/) that lets you practice your listening comprehension of them. It doesn’t help with some of the irregular numbers that come with certain counters, but it’s pretty handy for getting used to listening to large numbers and understanding what you’re hearing. ---
**Author:** ![Belthazar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/belthazar/32/4469_2.png) [@Belthazar](https://community.wanikani.com/u/Belthazar)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 8:10am UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/18 "2021-07-27T08:10:42Z")
> [@fallynleaf](#): > > It doesn’t help with some of the irregular numbers that come with certain counters Wikipedia is actually a pretty good resource for that: > **[Japanese counter word | Euphonic changes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_counter_word#Euphonic_changes)** > > Systematic changes occur when particular numbers precede counters that begin with certain phonemes. For example, 一 ichi + 回 kai → 一回 ikkai. The details are listed in the table below. > This can be the result of the morpho-phonological phenomenon of historical sound changes, as shown by the voicing of 匹 hiki: > change from glottal \[h\] to bilabial \[p\]. > It may also be that some counters carry features which are responsible for such euphonic changes\[clarification needed\] for singular, dual, and plural... ---
**Author:** ![JoeKomaGawa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/joekomagawa/32/5749_2.png) [@JoeKomaGawa](https://community.wanikani.com/u/JoeKomaGawa)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2021, 2:39pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/19 "2021-08-06T14:39:11Z")
Level 2 you say? I usggest that you just bide your time and grind away at memorizing the presentations on Wanikani until you get to level 5, which is where I am now. THEN the problme yuou are talking about here will be organized and you will already have memorized the days, things 1-10…Umm I would say I am 90% there. Then look at the chart, Trust Wanikani to feed you the ones you/we need ---
**Author:** ![xaiviax](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/wanikanicommunity/user_avatar/community.wanikani.com/xaiviax/32/397410_2.png) [@xaiviax](https://community.wanikani.com/u/xaiviax)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711/20 "2021-08-06T16:29:58Z")
Popping in to mention that in a lot of songs, 15 is said as strawberry. いちご 🤪 [Next page](https://community.wanikani.com/t/numbers-help/52711.md?page=2)