May 3rd Daily Reading ブラックジャックによろしく Manga

Ah yeah ok, I get it now. Thank you.

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@YanagiPablo
If you want to host tomorrow you can edit it as you wish. Otherwise I’ll take over but I might miss a lot of suggestions. I generally volunteer because otherwise I’m unsure if others would but if you have ideas as to how to do it, I’d encourage you to do it.

@ayamedori Oh yes… thanks so much, I didn’t think of that possibility at all. I like kanji so much (probably because they’re familiar) that I usually interpret stuff without kanji as the most common hiragana-only word that matches. I would have caught it if I had seen 経った. Thanks again, it makes so much more sense than たった=ただ :joy:

@YanagiPablo So something like a thread that acts as a contents page? I think that’s a good idea, honestly. Also, I didn’t know you could hyperlink text to posts like that. Now I understand how your idea would work. In that case, yes, we could keep adding links to the screenshot currently being translated.

Yes, my mistake. I forgot that what I just said is more valid for a progression over time (like ‘the economy has been getting worse and worse’ or ‘the outlook has been getting better and better’). However, while your translations (‘until’ and ‘from’) are completely correct, I still think that adding 〜て来る/〜て行く (if it’s a spatial meaning, I think using kanji is valid, since that the literal meaning of these verbs. :stuck_out_tongue: I could be wrong though. Haha.) adds a sense of continuity, because just ここへ運ばれた would have fully expressed the idea of ‘being transported here’, right? I think we have something similar in French: “depuis chez lui jusqu’à l’hôpital” versus “de chez lui à l’hôpital”. Both are technically correct, but the first is usually more natural because there’s continuity, right?

Not in French I don’t think. There’s a first meaning (sequence) but if you wanted to say you ate both at the same time an adverb would be expected. No one would think it could be one or the other. It’s either with an adverb or without.

From what I understand 〜て as a sequence is more frequent than 〜て to indicate at the same time. So と could be used to link nouns while 〜て can be used to link verbs then (among other things).

I’m going to do H in a separate post because the first with F & G is getting too long to reliably edit. Also, I’m gonna stop right after this because it’s taking too long. Will probably reply to other things tomorrow. I wanted to finish F in half an hour, but it took me 1.5h to finish even though I already understood the sentence at the start. :joy: (half-crying, half-laughing) I won’t have time for anything else at this rate…
(Note: I’m typing the pronunciations in the explanation instead of as furigana. I will split the kana kanji-by-kanji)

H

常識的 に 考えて 手遅れ だった から だ
commonsensical [adverb] consider-TE hand-lateness be-past because be

Translation

Thinking about it commonsensically, it’s because it’s too late.
じょう/しき/てき: 常識=common sense/knowledge. 的=an ending that turns a kanji block into an adjective (it has a similar function in Chinese, although its overall function in Chinese is like の’s in Japanese). The result is な-adjective. Adding に turns it into an adverb.
かんがえて: 考える=to think/consider.
て/おくれ: ‘too late’ or ‘the state of being too late’. I think it’s used like an adjective, but grammatically, it’s treated like a noun (so we have to add の after it and so on…) The reason I said ‘hand-lateness’: I’m trying to prove that even native Japanese compound words function with the same logic as kanji compounds. Realise this, and it’ll be easier to see Japanese as a whole, and not just kanji + everything else. And yes, so, if you reach out your hand and it’s late, that means you’re ‘taking action too late’. Logical, right?
…[verb]からだ: This is a way of saying ‘the reason is [verb+the whole sentence that came before it]’ This is the more complete way to respond to the question ‘why?’: 「〜〜〜からです・だ」, instead of stopping at から

EDIT to respond to another post: @Zizka

True, I think everyone interprets it as a sequence, especially because the passé composé used in my example is a tense that means ‘the action is completed’, which is why the adverb is needed. But what I meant was that the words describing the action stay exactly the same, it’s just that you need to add an adverb (i.e. more context) in order to make the meaning clear. The « et » itself doesn’t reveal whether it’s a sequence or not, even though it makes more sense and is more common to interpret it as a sequence if there’s no context. So you have to guess based on context and logic (i.e. can those particular actions even happen at the same time?). See what I mean?

And yes, you can see と as the noun linker, and て as the verb linker. Does it make more sense now?

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Is it sequential here? The 〜て I mean.

You… could see it that way? But I think it’s more cause-and-effect here. Another way of phrasing it: ‘If you think about it commonsensically, (you will conclude that) it’s because it was too late.’

PS: Everyone, I think I’ll take a break tomorrow and maybe only come on after 7pm (GMT/UTC +2h) for 1-2h maximum. Need to sort some stuff out, including how all my Japanese stuff (this forum + my own studying) should fit into my current schedule. You can tag me if you’re really stuck and can’t find anything online so that I’ll get an email and respond when I come online, but I probably won’t scroll through all the translations like I usually do.

I’m confused about the 〜て :dizzy_face: it’ll get better with practice.

日本語を練習すると分かります。

I created Reading ブラックジャックによろしく manga exercises (p14-15);

we can start trying the new ideas (post a new image of the following pages in the same thread once all letters are done);

If that goes ok, we will then create the “episode” thtread, to put all the meta-info and links (and make it a wiki)

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@Shannon-8
What do you make of all the information about 〜て? Maybe your take on things would clarify things for me.

My attitude is like Jonapedia right now. I had a half hour this morning, and I think I spent an hour and a half just READING. (And, below, I’m confused about what I was reading) This was an important discussion today that had to be said re formatting the thread.

@Zizka, re. て

Right now re て, I can’t focus on the discussion, it’s a blur. I’ve been looking at Aeron Buchanan’s Japanese Verb Chart a lot these days, and I have fully wrapped my head around those て’s. I will look at it again tonight and try to address your question.

[details=“Re. Duolingo:”]
I’m worried more and more about my “experiment” with “Can I pass the N5 using Duolingo ONLY to learn Japanese?”. Have I already perturbed the data horribly? I’m only beginning to slowly advance from where I paused in checkpoint 4 now. ゆっくり
/[details]

Unrelated chatter to 兄弟 radish8

I’m very excited!! My daughter (the one teaching English in Japan right now) also likes Kiki’s Delivery Service, and I have her half-talked into joining the board to participate in your Book Club in June!! I think she’s uncomfortable about her reading level. Which reminds me…

Zizka, we have ALL really advanced in our reading in JUST A MONTH of tackling one sentence at a time in Monster and Black Jack. But it looks like Wanikani readers like to join AT THEIR WK LEVEL … so, (keeping in mind radish8’s book club experience that people don’t join later, study plans etc). Perhaps we could try to give notice of the expected WK level? I suspect that I’m a 10? Can any of you WK people guesstimate? We were pretty low level and just looking everything up and asking questions. (As you can still see). I think a level 5 could enjoy it if they have the research time.

C., D., E.

何もしなくていい…

It’s OK to do nothing

ですが先生… このままでは金子さんの容体は…

But, professor... If we do nothing the condition of Mr. Kaneko...
  • まま : again this word, that gives an information about an unchanged state. There is no word for word “if we do nothing” in the Japanese phrase; but このままでは gives the idea of continuing with the current state.
    I’m not sure if では is partcile of mean of action + topic; or if it is continuation form (te-form) of the coppula だ+emphasis.
  • 容体 : it has the same reading (ようだい) and meaning (condition of health) as 容態; but using the kanji 体 (body) instead of 態 (condition, appearance). I don’t know if that particular choice of writing adds some nuance.

君にはまだ分からないのか? あの手術の意味が…

You haven't understood yet? ...the meaning of that operation

No big deal here… but note how the subject (with particle が) is added as an afterthought, after the verb and question ( 分からないのか ).

Regarding ~て: ah ok then. Well, I’ll keep my eyes open and I’ll get it eventually.

Regarding the WK level: I honestly have no clue about what the level of our activity is. I don’t do the WK so I’m not a good reference in that aspect. YanagiPablo’s level has gone up so I assume he might be in a better position to judge.

Re: Duo Lingo:
I don’t understand what you mean. Is this something we’ve talked about before? I don’t remember.

So far I have only seen kanji (recognition of composing elements, raw meaning, main readings (usually the ON reading is required on the quizz, but sometimes, as for 目 and 手 it is only the kun-reading)), then some vocabulary using those kanji.
I haven’t seen any grammar at all, so I suppose people that use WK have other sources to learn Japanese.

I don’t know if our path (coming here for the forums) is an usual one; or if the forum participants are mainly people already actively using WK kanji memorization drills.

@Zizka

What I grandiosely call “THE EXPERIMENT”

The first experimental result

Ah ok gotcha. Out of curiosity, you want to pass the N5 as a personal challenge or just for fun? Both?

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Yes, indeed.

The sentences are more complex than the ones in our training cursus (at least for me); both in grammar and in length.

There is also a thing lacking a lot in Duolingo (and probably in any other course): context! That thing so particularly important in Japanese language. Having real sentences in a real context (as there is a history going on; the meaning and interpretation depends on what happened before, what has been said, the interactions and positions of the different characters, etc) is something I really like, I think it helped me a lot to progress in a path of better understanding the inner working of the language.

Also, the fact that we have to actually type the texts, instead of just doing copy and paste of an already available electronic text version, is also a benefit. It improves our ability to recognize kanji elements and readings.

The helpful contribution of more knowledgeable people is also a big thing; if I had read it alone by myself, with a dictionary, I would have been able to get the meaning of the history and enjoy it; but I would have missed so much nuances, grammar points, and other information…

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off-topic

! That’s awesome :grin:

I would definitely recommend that she do something like take a look at the BookWalker preview pages to see how comfortable she would be reading it. There’s a link to the vocab spreadsheet that we’ll be using to help people with vocabulary, and of course we’ll help each other out with questions as we go, but looking at the preview can give you a good idea of whether it’s within your capabilities or not.

You just click the picture on that page to open up the preview. Sadly the eBook doesn’t have any pictures :pensive:


thoughts on WK level

I would actually say that people don’t join based on their WK level! WaniKani is only a service for learning kanji (and incidentally vocabulary), so we usually advise people that their level of grammar knowledge is far more important than their WK level to reading ability, as you can always look up words (assuming there’s furigana :grin: ).

Sorry to ruin that idea :grimacing: I’d say giving a rough estimate of JLPT level, while 100% acknowledging that native material does not align with JLPT levels (!), is more helpful.

You’ll see that in the Master List of Book Clubs we pretty much give a vague beginner - intermediate - advanced tag, depending on the text difficulty and the pace, or a vague JLPT level recommendation.

Er… I think you’re the first group I’ve ever encountered coming to the forums not as WaniKani users?! :grin: we’ve had the odd individual join who was interested in joining an existing book club or something (though only occasionally), but personally I’ve never experienced a group of users joining specifically to use the forums.

Obviously there are also people who sign up for the free WaniKani trial, decide it’s not for them, and continue using the forums anyway.

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Off Topic @Radish8

I was hyperventilating a little bit when I saw the sample page…I can see that I will be one of those people who needs to begin now for the club beginning at the end of June (nervous laughter). Now… To get my hands on a paper copy…

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