JLPT 2022 thread(All results out now)

Yes! It’s now of never!

Totally, imagine people in the stone age. They either memorize NOW or they are dead.
And we are the last successors of millions of survivors so it should be possible to memorize a bit of language easily. Everything else is stored in the internet anyway.

Because you are here, can I ask your opinion on 団扇?
It is interesting that often if something does not stick, there is a reason for it, but I fail to see it because I don’t think enough about it.

In the case of 団扇, which is a fixed fan, the Kanjis of “group” and “folding fan” are used.
Why? :blush: And it is not Onyomi.

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Sometimes (in my opinion), the question is not so much why you don’t remember as it is how you can remember. Are you having trouble with the meaning, reading, or both? (And I have to admit that I didn’t know this word.)

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I have a problem in general to remember the correct names of things in a subcategory.
Like in this case it is a fan, but there a two types in Japan, this one is fixed and usually comes with advertisement printed on it…
But the Kanji doesn’t give that impression. Anyway, not so important.

It is a 熟字訓 reading it seems.

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AH. Actually… OK, I can make up an explanation. No guarantees it’s historically accurate though:

First of all, the word itself: うちわ is supposed to mean 打ち羽. (That’s from the dictionary; I didn’t make it up.) 羽 should help you link it to the 扇 in 団扇, which means you’ve already got part of the kanji compound down.

As for linking the meaning to the kanji… well, if you had a fan that was a single… blob? Bundle? Rolled-up thing? (That’s how I see 団 – think 布団 or 団子.) I think you’d agree that everything would come together. Therefore 団扇 is the ‘single sheet’ sort of fan, not a folding fan.

Finally, to link the reading and meaning, go back to the etymology: うちわ for 打ち羽. Imagine a giant feather you’re using to ‘hit’ the air. (Imagine Kongming, for that matter, with his classic single-feather fan. That should do it.) That’s a fan.

So yeah, 団扇. :slight_smile:

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:slightly_smiling_face:
Thank you!

There is a 語源 part in Wikipedia but I can’t understand everything.
Additionally to your explanation it says it was used to hit flies etc.

Summary

「うちわ」は熟字訓である。大型の翳(は)に比して実用的な小型の翳と区別され、それを用いて害(ハエや蚊などの虫)を打ち払うことから「打つ翳」→「うちわ」となったのが一般的な説である。病魔などを撃ち払う魔除けの意味もあったとされる。

「扇」はもともと、観音開きの戸が羽のように開閉する様を表していて、それによって風が起こることに由来しているとする説がある。「団扇」は、中国由来の熟語である。「団」は「まるい」を意味する(「あつまる」の意味は派生である)。「だんせん」ともする。

大型の翳 No idea what that is :slightly_smiling_face:

It seems the Kanji 扇 is derived from the air a double (winged) door creates. That’s easy to remember I think.

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It’s this thing:
さしばの写真

Interesting!

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That’s really interesting. Very ancient, thank you.
I am now trying to memorize that Kanji as well and will never finish todays review :joy:

  • medicine (cage and arrow)
  • weapon (table on stool)
  • feathers
    =
    さしば (no idea what this is called in english)

I think ‘giant fan’ is good enough :joy: It’s usually meant for important people, to hide their faces etc. Maybe call it an ‘emperor’s fan’, if that helps you?

By the way, it’s actually used in this word:
翳す

which means ‘to suspend in midair’. When I recalled it, the mental image was ‘hover’ and holding out a hand. Guess I was close enough, since it works for keeping your hand over something or using it to shield your eyes from light.

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Wow, you used that word already?
Seems it is not so unimportant after all.

I don’t remember how I learnt it. It’s fairly rare. But I’ve definitely seen it at least once, and not just in a dictionary, I think.

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Like always, thank you very much.
It is always so rewarding to talk to you about meanings and 語源 :slightly_smiling_face:

Is there a topic for these things already?
It might be good to have one.

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I’m not sure actually. There might be. Haven’t checked.

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Offtopic

I always think of someone touching their IC card (icoca or whatever) onto the reader at the subway gate. I think that’s also かざす, if you want another rather common meaning :slight_smile: (Google at least agrees with me)

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I don’t think it does really, though. Depending on your definition of actual dedicated study, I never really actually studied grammar past some n5 level stuff maybe. I think you’re fine just immersing and looking stuff up honestly, so I don’t think srs or study is a necessity for grammar since I didn’t do it and…well I don’t have any problems with grammar.

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This is also the word used for Link holding his smartphone/tablet thing in Breath of the Wild over the ancient panel things.

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I did some deep reading on different grammatical structures (and I still do now), but yeah, same. I’ve never SRS-ed grammar, and I think grammar points are some of the things I almost never write down for retention. (I do that quite often for other stuff.) I’ve only ever done dedicated study for N1 grammar, and even then, no special revision. All the grammar I know from mid-N3 to N2, plus a bit of N1, I learnt by looking things up while watching anime (and while reading the occasional article).

PS: @riya I know you said your job is mentally taxing – I’ve done some research myself – but it might be worthwhile focusing on really understanding a few grammar points at a time instead of reviewing, say, 10-20 per month. You could do that by reading explanations that are a little more detailed than JLPT prep site translations. I find that when I feel like I know how something works, I feel more assured and I don’t have to review it as much.

Oh, interesting! I was expecting some English loanword, but that does make sense.

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I think that still counts as grammar study, personally. I agree that SRSing grammar isn’t necessary, though. I did it in the runup to N1 just as a test-passing strategy, but at that point it was just a quick way to memorize and reinforce a small number of sentence patterns I didn’t already know. I think it’s also hard to effectively SRS grammar as it’s easy for it to devolve into “recognize the sentence → produce the response”. (I should delete that deck from anki, it’s been hanging around in there zombie=like way too long.)

There are one or two bits of grammar that are subtle enough you might not even realize there’s a thing there to be noticed, so I’m not sure I’d want to study only as I ran into unknown things: ては indicating repetition of actions is one that got me – I remember my tutor at the time pulling me up on that in a reading passage I thought I’d entirely understood…

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Yeah, I guess, but the deep reading I do more out of interest. For quick lookups, I just read short explanations and move on. Depends on how much I want to know honestly. I’m just the sort who likes to know as much as possible, but I don’t think 100% of the reading was necessary. Also, I think the issue was ‘dedicated’ grammar study: when I do lookups, it’s a mix of vocabulary and grammar except for deep reading. That’s what I meant: I rarely study grammar in isolation unless I feel like reading an article on usage. And I very rarely revise anything, though of course there are things I forget.

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Don’t know how to look for it.

There is another one.
疎通 :sweat_smile:

I’m not really sure what keywords to use to search for such a thread. ‘Etymology’ or ‘origins’, I guess, but it wouldn’t really matter to me.

Is there something you mix this up with?

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