I’ve read a few of the Level 60 Celebration posts where people discuss their Japanese language learning highs & lows, usually with a dose of retrospection about what they could have done better / differently.
A few examples are people regretting rushing through every lesson as soon as it’s available and eventually drowning in SRS hell; or focussing on Wanikani, but only discovering Kanesame / Kaniwani at level 60, etc.
I thought it might be a good idea to consolidate that advice into a thread that everyone can dip in an out of for advice & reference, rather than search through every Level 60 post (although that’s what i’ve been doing recently and vicariously enjoying the journey!)
Everything from what level to start manga, grammar or speaking / output. Any study habits that really helped? Resources you wished you used?
Obviously this isn’t limited to Level 60 attainees only! If you’ve made good progress with your learning then any guidance is welcome
I’m still early enough into the process that I can implement ideas that would work for me, so, at least for my Japanese journey, any help would be greatly appreciated.
I started reading graded readers at level 6 in WK. I’d had some grammar and vocabulary from Rocketlanguages.com, but was still at a very low level there, too. To my surprise, I could read level 0 graded readers without too much difficulty. Eventually, I was reading at about 3rd grade level in the graded readers. Reading is a great way to improve your language skills.
I wish I hadn’t gotten so wrapped up in the JLPT, and just stuck with the Genki I & II, AITJ (Now Quartet I & II), New Authentic Japanese progression alongside a tutor. I think my progress would have been much more steady and solid.
The route I took was basically duct taped together and while I can understand a lot, my comprehension is a bit of a rollercoaster ride where I’m completely fluid 1 book and completely lost in the next. Sometimes in the same series.
I keep giving this advice but don’t be afraid to take it slow, and if something isn’t clicking, either A) obsess over just that thing or B) move on because it will inevitably come later and you might be good enough at Japanese to understand it when it comes up again. For me that was ように and ような.
Hello! I’ve been using WaniKani since November 2019, so for much longer than the typical user. That has some part to do with the fact that I was 16 when I started, didn’t study for a year (which wasn’t good, but whatever), and am also a full time student. I didn’t really touch Japanese grammar at all until I was somewhat deep into WaniKani and I regret waiting so long before learning the fundamentals because I feel like the latent benefit I would have received from being exposed to even simple Japanese would have compounded a little better given the timeframe. That said, I’m an AJATT/immersion-for-beginners hater and I feel that I only truly benefit from exposure at this point because I can read at a decent level with my kanji knowledge and have familiarity with all of the N3 grammar and some of the N2. Just my experience! I would recommend you hold off on trying to immerse until you get a handle of the grammar and a decent amount of kanji knowledge; I feel that any sooner will just frustrate you.
Otherwise, not a whole lot of other complaints. Most important thing is to have fun and don’t beat yourself up if things aren’t coming as fast as you want. Even though I tried to fight against this realization, Japanese is a lifelong endeavor for me and I had to come to peace with the fact that any amount of progress is commendable; you’re running laps around the overwhelming majority of people who quit.
Thanks for refreshing my memory about these! I remember starting a few of the Level 0 readers last year and really feeling the benefit from them, so definitely a good mention.
There’s a specific thread reagarding all sorts of Graded Readers, with paid and free options available. For the latter, I foud this post to be invaluable:
Taking it slow is my approach now. I’ve reset twice due to burnout / life committments, so slow & steady is my mantra!
When you say that your comprehension can be a bit up and down, is that relating to the grammar side of things? I have the Genki textbooks but have been put off using them as a solo learner as I find several sections aren’t relevant unless you’re in a classroom. In saying that, I found Tokini Andy’s companion videos which take you through it and might be a better fit for my situation.
It’s awesome that your first post by Lv 39 is on this thread! Thaks for the reply.
I agree that total immersion would be ridiculously overwhelming at a lower level. I do remember a Lv 60 post where the person wasn’t in japan, but decided to get as much immersion at home by switching their phone & computer to Japanese. I thought this was a great idea, but only once you have a solid foundation in japanese, say intermediate-advanced.
Having fun is a good thing to bring up! I genuinely enjoy WK and the kanji journey, but the grammar side is much harder. That moment when things click though can be addictive! I was watching Shogun last night and was over the moon when I recognised 仕方がない! (Vocab from WK Lv 6).
Some things that might be part of the intermediate level or even some beginner stuff, I might have not been exposed to because of my JLPT focused study. So I may read some things with ease, then there might be something I missed that would be considered “beginner/intermediate level” and completely miss the meaning. It’s not as crazy as it used to be, but it happens when I read novels here and there.
Back to the textbook topic, while I think Tokini Andy is great for self study, you won’t get speaking practice like you will if you do iTalki or with a tutor. So I strongly recommend, if conversing is involved in any part of your goals (some people only want to watch/read Japanese stuff) then I advise you to invest it lessons with an actual teacher at some point in the near future. The sooner the better. It just makes what you learned stick more.
My regret is a pretty simple one. I first started studying 10 years ago in 2014, but I wasn’t able to maintain the motivation or form effective study habits. As a result, I was studying on and off for about 10 years without making any remarkable progress. One big factor was that I was always searching for the book or course that would make learning Japanese fast and fun. In reality, learning is not fast, at least for most people, and it isn’t always fun.
If I had been able to stick to a few resources and finish them before moving on to the next one, I imagine I would be close to fluency by now.
TL;DR: Stick to your resources and build a habit of studying. Even a little each day will take you far in a few years. And: Better to start late than never!
If you consider yourself a beginner: try the Michel Thomas Method. It will allow you to learn the basics of the language and make relatively complex sentences early on without much effort.
it says “By the end of the course, you will have the confidence to understand and speak basic Japanese.” after doing a 20-30 hr course. This seems very very very dubious to me.
You’d be surprised. It doesn’t teach you a lot of vocab though, and it sticks to polite forms, but it certainly enables you to say basic things and learn the basics of the language in an “effortless” way.
Kaniwani is Wanikani in reverse (hence the name). It syncs with your Wanikani account (via API) and runs you through SRS-ing all the same items (vocab only - not Kanji and radicals) in reverse. Whereas in Wanikani you are shown a vocab in Japanese and asked what it means in English and the reading, in Kaniwani you are shown the vocab in English and asked to produce the written Japanese. I.e. recall (Wanikani) vs. production (Kaniwani).
Kamesame can be used for the same purpose, except it also includes Kanji (depending on your settings) not just vocab. Kamesame can also be used to quiz you on recall as well. In addition to syncing with your Wanikani account via the API for content, you can also enter your own items as well (enter any text and scan it for kanji and vocab to be added). For whatever source you use for content input, you can configure each of kanji recall, kanji production, vocab recall and vocab production.
I wish I hadn’t spent so much time on “English dominant” resources, over comprehensible input. The biggest offender I think was the JapanesePod101 programme. I got a good deal on it in terms of money, and did spend a lot of time with the podcasts, focusing and listening and working through the programme. But the beginners podcasts are a total waste of time. The format is musical intro - talking intro in English - skit in Japanese - skit in Japanese again slowed down - skit in Japanese again with line by line translation into English - discussion in English of a word, term, or grammar point. Covering one single basic conversation took a good 20 minutes at least.
While there are some resources with explanations in English I still like and use to this day- I think Misa Sensei is very helpful for breaking down grammar terms and how to use them naturally- I recommend doing as much as possible in Japanese as soon as you can.
There was someone on here who had a sort of web page journey thing that was all in Japanese with emoji, and that was fantastic. You could literally start in Japanese with just kana knowledge and understand what was going on.
My other regret is the time very early on that I used romaji resources, but this tends to not be promoted as much as it used to when I first tried to learn Japanese (20 years ago )
Seconded! I’ve done the full Michel Thomas course and actually listen to random lessons on and off again just to remind myself of sentance structures, etc. Like basic SRS almost. It’s a really fast way to learn how to construct basic sentences, but you need to flesh out your knowledge with more vocab + verbs as thay only give you the bare bones.
The format is like sitting in on a classroom with 2 students and a teacher. Just make sure you have some patience for the bad student!
I wish I would have focused less on SRS/flashcards/stats and more on input from the beginning. I was always afraid to sit down and watch/listen to anything because of how much I didn’t understand, but actually, not understanding things doesn’t matter that much if it’s something you enjoy, and the consequence of doing so many flashcards and never getting native input is after 2 years you still don’t understand any Japanese as it’s actually used. Once I found a show I loved with no option to use English subtitles, my ability skyrocketed so fast, it was unbelievable.
Anyway, for those who are nervous about starting native input, I highly recommend the Japanese sesame street YouTube channel and the Pokemon YouTube channel, both of which are cute and relatively easy to understand even if you can’t understand the words.
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