What you’ve said is an another subject I would like to ask as well, but I didn’t because it would make this topic goes all over the place. If it’s a good idea to learn Japanese from Japanese textbooks directly, once I could understand them.
I have a look on Japanese text book and videos that explain Japanese grammar frequently. (Most of them are N3 and above) To find if I have enough Japanese knowledge to understand them.
I am also dutch, but I try to think more about compare grammar to dutch than to English, because it makes more sense to me. I think part of this that in college I loved to break down dutch sentences and try to figure out how it worked. Looking back on what I learnt back then makes learning (especially the beginning of) Japanese grammar so much easier. I absolutely love particles in Japanese for this reason xD
I can understand that non-native english speakers have problem with grammar, because the words that are used for certain grammar points aren’t common words that you use when speaking english casually. Other grammar points just do not exist in the same way in English, which makes it even harder to understand…
So translating Japanese sentences would be a good approach as well, right? I was thinking about translating Japanese news on Todai apps to Thai to make sure if I understand the article correctly. However, I haven’t done it yet because I’m not sure it would worth my time and effort.
It’s OK, I understand. I’m the same. Hahaha. I think a lot of Asian cultures encourage people to be more private and not to reveal too much about themselves straightaway.
It could be, but you’d need some way to check your translation so you know it’s correct. Also, what are ‘Todai apps’? I haven’t heard of them before. 
I don’t think that translating everything is a good use of time. However, like you said, yes, it’s a good way to check your understanding.
(I’m still trying to see if I can come up with any Thai-specific advice. I’m doing a quick read of some articles on Thai grammar and sentence structure – I’ve never learnt Thai before. For now, I think it sounds most similar to Malay among the languages I’ve seen…)
It’s an apps that help you reading Japanese news from various sites.
I’m not sure about Malaysia but Thai language is really similar to Laos and Cambodia because Khmer empire was so huge and had influenced langauges around this area. The reason why Thai and Japanese have some similarity in vocab and sentence structure is probably because of the influence of Chinese language in the past. (Just my guess)
It’s possible. When I was finishing secondary education several years ago, a Thai student visited my school, and he told me his surname was Jui. He explained that it’s a surname of Chinese origin (水 – the on’yomi in Japanese is すい, which is quite close), so I guess there is some Chinese influence in Thai as well. I wouldn’t be surprised if the yes-no question particle mai in Thai (sorry for the lack of accents: I don’t know Thai tones; I just know that there are five) is related to 没 (Mandarin reading: méi), because we use it similarly in Mandarin.
I see. I just did a quick search, and yes, it does look like it could be good practice. However, I think you should only do it if it’s interesting for you. Otherwise, studying grammar more explicitly, with clearer explanations, might be better. That aside, you can also ask grammar questions on this thread on the forums:
The explanations from other users might help you.
When children learn they don’t have any scaffolding around the knowledge they are trying to build up. As adults learning a language, we do: our native language knowledge (which we built up over years of painstakingly laying brick over brick) serves as an easy shortcut to try and build more connections to the new knowledge more quickly. Fundamentally, I think we will take shortcuts when available, especially as we get less and less patient as a society.
I agree it is problematic though, and your suggested approach may be better (it’s one I attempted with Spanish, with much better results than textbook-learning and poor translations), but I bet that both you and I unknowingly “cheated” by using the scaffolding provided by our native languages. In your case, it seems your scaffolding may be more useful for Japanese. In mine, mine was much better suited for Spanish.
I doubt the status quo is going to change though. Learning a language looks much easier when the advertising makes it look like you can just use your language to gently hop across the abyss between you and your target language. [Insert obligatory Nietzsche quote]
We are understandably lazy as a whole, of course we will take the path of seemingly least resistance, so courses structured in a “quick easy progress” format are not going anywhere, even if they are not effective.
Do you mean textbooks that Japanese kids use to study their native language at school? I’ve never tried that. Neither have I heard of any adult foreigners doing that. My guess would be that since Japanese kids are already fluent in Japanese they focus more on writing, learning the language history and stuff like that. Not super relevent for foreign learners.
Yeah, I think most countries stop teaching strictly linguistic features of their main language fairly early on. In Singapore, for instance, I think that grammar study and intensive vocabulary study stop around the age of 14, or maybe even earlier. In France, students may be studying French literature at that age. Most of the basics of a country’s main language are probably taught in the equivalent of primary school in that country, I think.
I mean the books like Shin Kanzen Master. The one I could find in Thailand is fully Japanese but the one I found online have a bit of English on some clarification. Many online learning resources level N3 and above are in full Japanese langauge as well. 日本語の森 for example, which I started to understand what are they talking about in full Japanese. (I was very happy when I understand when they teach grammar in full Japanese explanation)
I’m waiting for my Japanese skill to improve to the point that I would be able to understand them. It’s because it would be counterintuitive if I need to open dictionary every 5 second when I read them lol.
I didn’t considered that possibility and I think you are right. I just unknowingly cheated by using my native language knowledge on learning Japanese and unfairly criticised English textbook and learning methods.
Ah, in this case try using them as soon as you can. I never used textbooks like Genki and I abandoned Minna no Nihongo after a few chapters. ShinKanzenMaster was great though. I finished N4 and N3 and also started doing N2. N2 has no English whatsoever.
Besides, I’m taking lessons with a tutor and after passing N3 I exclusively use Japanese during my lessons. When discussing grammar with my tutor I’d try to explain how I understand it in simple terms. I think it’s essential to jump into studying Japanese in Japanese.
I wouldn’t know about Japanese kids but in primary school (in Australia) there were some textbook-like exercise books we had. One such example: Spelling Mastery, aka Smelly Fartery 
(I didn’t care for it and learned nothing through that, but others may have needed it, who knows)
There were also some reading comprehension exercise books. I don’t remember any that specifically focused on grammar though. We mostly did that through worksheets in class or assignments — just practice and then more practice, I suppose.
For Cure Dolly: Turn on the subs 
Does her book worth reading? I heard a lot of good things about her videos. So if I can’t stand her voice, I would consider purchasing her book instead.
Really depends on the language. Let’s be honest, English grammar is quite simple (spelling isn’t though).
For Slavic languages as a native speaker you study them all the way until your 1st/2nd year of college. The grammar is really convoluted and for each grammar rule you have to memorize dozens of exceptions. The spelling is also pretty bad, so again you’d have spelling quizes all the time. I remember we had not one but several textbooks and workbooks. And we also had separate courses for Native Language and Native Literature. Overall it was a heck of a workload studying our native language…
I honestly don’t think it’s worth it. It’s a good book, but it was written before the bulk of her video series and it feels like many of her ideas weren’t fully fleshed out yet.
I think her videos are great but I can understand getting past the voice is really tough for some people.
That’s a shame the other Japanese teacher Youtuber I think has really good contents is “Japanese Ammo with Misa”. I watch one of her video and I think the content is really good, but I can’t listen to her voice longer than 5 minute. It’s just… I don’t know how to describe it in English… too cute I guess.
Then Cure Dolly should be right up your alley
Just being curious now… so would high school kids make a lot of mistakes in terms of grammar and spelling then?
I remember weekly spelling tests all through primary, but in high school they became less regular and by Grade 9 they disappeared almost completely. In the senior years English class was focused on how adeptly you expressed yourself in your writing.
Are you saying that grammar in your native language was studied even through college? Because… wow