I went from N4 to N2 after a year in Japan, just came back AMA

Japanese Language
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みんなさん、よろしくお願いします,

First of all this is my first post, having been an avid WK user and forum lurker for quite a while I decided to try and be an active member of this community.

The story:

In 2022 I decided to take a Japanese-focused sabbatical year, so I left for Japan in September that year and joined a language school in Tokyo. I came back in December 2023, meaning I would have totaled a little bit more than a year.

Prior to leaving I had just failed N4 and was super motivated :fire:.いうまでこともないだが、being in Japan was a huge boost allowing me to reach N2 level within a year.

Like most people here I’m an avid learner and I just want to keep progressing.
I’m more than happy to share my experience: learning tricks, material or just things about life in Japan.

A few things to know:

  • I passed N2 at Level 38
  • It was not my first time in Japan but my 5th-6th (I’m not sure :sweat_smile:), having travelled quite a bit in the past I was at peace with spending most of my time in Tokyo and dedicating myself to studying.
  • Wanikani was very instrumental to my Kanji ability as well as Bunpro for Grammar. Thanks to that combination I went from struggling to read articles to be confortable with more complex novels such as コンビニ人間、母影 or 推し、燃ゆ
  • I’m a massive しんちゃん fan and one of my top motivations was to be able to read and watch the original tv shows and manga.
  • I have lurked the WK book clubs so much that I use them as my book recommendation engine :eyes:
  • 積読です
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So does the entire Japanese publishing industry. The number of times a book gets a new print run in Japan shortly after being chosen as a book club book here…

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If you don’t mind - would you be willing to identify the school and the language program that you took?

I’m at about an N4 level right now (I missed the N4 passing grade by 3 points) - and I have a goal, if not yet concrete enough to call it a plan, to someday spend a year or two going to a language school in Japan - but many things would have to happen in my life before that would ever become a practical reality.

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Have you joined the 積読協会
I want to for the memes
I’m constantly buying books and then not reading them past page 20

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Hi @servette Of course !

I enrolled into https://www.isi-education.com 1 year program.
What made me choose that school specifically was the mandatory “business japanese” classes courses that you have on top of the regular curriculum.
It took me a long time to finally take the leap and do it, I don’t regret it at all far from it.

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It does sound like a chicken and egg situation :hatching_chick:.

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@GearAid this is genius, I wish I knew about this back in 2023.
I would have totally gone to the 第三回積読本大賞 :laughing:

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At what level did you start/finish at ISI to be able to pass the N2 at the end of it?

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I’m actually planning to go study at ISI next year. Would appreciate your insight on a couple of things:

  • How old were you when you went to study there and what is the average age of students?
  • What was the workload like for you? Do you think it would be managable to work part time as well?
  • What was the class placement like, did you find you were relearning things you had already learnt or maybe the opposite and there were some gaps in your knowledge?
  • I was thinking of doing a 2 year course. Do you think 1 year was enough? Would you have liked to do another year or do you think there is diminishing returns?
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I started at 中級１ (Intermediate 1) and ended at 上級Ⅰ (Advanced 1) after a year.
It takes 3 months to go from one level to another.

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  • How old were you when you went to study there and what is the average age of students?
  • I was and I am a little bit above 30 :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:.
  • I would sat the average age is a bit below 30.
  • I would say most students are between 24-28. Profiles are very diverse, it’s rare but some students are above 50.
  • What was the workload like for you? Do you think it would be managable to work part time as well?

At school yes there is a lot of work, on top of homework in the textbooks you also get assignments such as essays or presentations. The sad truth tho is that you are not forced to do any of it (one of the perks, or not of paying for private education).
What you do outside of school is way more important. For me it meant all day long Wanikani, Bunpro, going to the movies (no subtitles, no escape), going to 神保町 buy books, talk to everyone and get tons of language exchanges.

  • What was the class placement like, did you find you were relearning things you had already learnt or maybe the opposite and there were some gaps in your knowledge?

They have their own methods so depending on your level you might run into things you’ve already seen. But unless you’ve already reach N1 or lived and/or worked full time in Japan, there will likely always be gaps.
You also learn a lot of things in class that you won’t find in text books.

  • I was thinking of doing a 2 year course. Do you think 1 year was enough? Would you have liked to do another year or do you think there is diminishing returns?

It really depends on the level you start at and the work you put in outside of class. For me a year was enough. Going to school and being there gave me all the tools and discipline I needed to continue towards N1 by myself.

:warning: It’s a private school: unless you perform really really really bad in exams they will always push to the next class. If you don’t have time to practice what you learn outside of the class they will be diminishing returns in taking another year

From conversation to articles or random signposts in the street,I took everything as an opportunity to learn.

On top of active study, small hacks such as changing your phone language to Japanese or moving the dictionary app to your dockbar have a strong impact on your passive learning.

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To be honest I would bet this is “even if you’ve reached N1.” I feel like a fraud a lot, having made simple mistakes or forgotten basic vocab. I often feel like even N1 is just the beginning.

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Hi, thank you for your school review! I’m planning to go to ISI next year, but I saw mixed review about the school. Did you go to the ISI Shibuya/Harajuku Career Course? Right now, I am comparing between ISI and ALA.

I have some questions if you don’t mind.

  1. I heard the teacher changes and rotate everyday, does that makes the learning difficult? Are the teachers kind, or are they strict?
  2. How many kanji do you need to memorize in a day/week? What happen if you can’t memorize them on time?
  3. For the attendance, I heard they’re quite strict. Can you request for leave if you’re sick or have important appointment (ex: going back to your home country for 1-2 days), How many days can you be absent in a term?
  4. Does the school/teacher supports you like: finding part time jobs, helping with banks, etc? Or they doesn’t care?
  5. If you can turn back the time, would you still go to this school? or you will find another?

Thank you so much. I really appreciate if you reply :smiley:

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(My experience was Yamasa, not ISI, so this is more general remarks.)

Note that if you’re on a student visa, every language school will be checking attendance, because the government obliges them to. The government mandated baseline is apparently 80%; falling below 70% triggers a report to the government and probably cancellation of your visa. Many schools will set a requirement above the government baseline, to ensure you don’t drop down too near it. (AIUI the schools’ ability to sponsor student visas can get yanked if too many of their students don’t meet the attendance requirements, so they have an incentive to be serious about it. And the government cares about attendance becaue they don’t want people coming in on student visas and then ditching classes in order to work illegally.) But this should all leave enough for unavoidable absences for sickness and the like, assuming you were otherwise keeping up a high attendance rate.

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Omg twins! I bought a copy of volume 1 right when I started learning Japanese. It was my biggest motivator to keep going. When I got good enough to be able to read it I bought the full 50-volume set (shipping costs were ridiculous lol). There’s a しんちゃん book club as well, but I let it go dormant when I figured there wasn’t much interest.

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Change of Teachers

The teachers change every day, but not the material. Each teacher continues from where the previous one left off. This can be challenging if you are sensitive to different teaching styles. However, I find the rotation beneficial as it exposes you to various communication styles. It can also be an advantage if you don’t particularly like a specific teacher’s style.

Kanji

Even though a lot of time is dedicated to kanji, the school is not very strict about students memorizing them. There isn’t a fixed number you “need” to memorize, but you will likely encounter about 30 new kanji per week (similar to the maximum speed of a Wanikani level).

Attendance

I agree with pm215’s answer. The school is very strict about attendance. Unless you are sick and have documentation to prove it, any other reason for absence will be counted against you. For example, someone had to go back to their home country for five days due to a relative’s serious illness, and it was counted as an absence.

Support from the School/Teachers

Yes, the school does offer support for things like finding part-time jobs and helping with bank matters. I didn’t personally use their services, but they have staff dedicated to assisting students with these issues. However, I can’t comment on the extent and quality of the help provided.

Would I Go Back?

At an advanced level, YES (post N2, pre-N1), but not at the level I joined (Intermediate N4-N3). This is based on my personal experience. If you are an enthusiastic learner, the pre-N2 level at ISI can be a drag. The level disparity is too high (with students who can barely read N4 kanji and form sentences alongside those who can have full conversations), and aside from the textbook, there isn’t much challenging material. I advanced so much with Wanikani and Bunpro that I stopped paying attention in class and focused on preparing for my daily language exchanges instead.

Things get much more interesting at the advanced level. You get more opportunities for conversation, text analysis, essay writing, and discussing news articles. It’s much more intellectually stimulating at that stage.

Voila ! I hope this answer your questions !

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Interesting – I’m surprised they don’t have enough intermediate students to separate them out into levels better. At Yamasa I went from “just past end of Minna no Nihongo 2” (which I think of as the beginner/intermediate boundary) to about N2 level, and they had the student numbers to have plenty of classes at different points along that spectrum, so everyone in my class was pretty much at the same ability level.

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Can you talk a bit more specifically about your language competences at the beginning? Were you equally proficient in writing/reading/speaking/listening?
If no: How did this influence your placement and your overall learning progess during this programm? How many people were in a class? Did the classes have specific focuses?

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Thank you for this thread @korasan . It helped thoroughly answer so many questions I had in mind. I plan to do the same next year. I would really appreciate it if you could also answer @Wizz 's questions below (and above for that matter). If you’re still around and checking the forum, that is.

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I was equally competent in speaking/listening/reading but couldn’t - and still can’t - write most of the Kanjis I could read.

The placement is only based on a little online test with questions similar to those you’d find in during JLPT.
I felt my placement was fair but after about 3-4 months the pace was not adequate for me anymore.

Each class has a common structure Homework → Grammar → Kanjis/Vocab and then a few practical exercises, usually go through to 3-4 text books. On top of tap some days you get special courses (Business Japanese/Keigo, JLPT prep, presentation, essays etc…).

There are 20 people per class.

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