Help checking the grammar and vocab of a (short) translation of an original haiku

That would fit nicely in the right bottom corner! Is she doing it vertically or horizontally? It can be one line, too, doesn’t have to be spread over three lines, just fyi.

Sounds like a nice big project she’s working on. Is it for her graduation project?

Sounds like this would fit the song as well, the vocals are nice and raw sounding.

3 Likes

In official 俳句 there is, in 川柳 it’s not necessary. First line of the wikipedia page:

日本語俳句 (はいく)とは、季語(有季)及び五・七・五(十七音)を主とした定型を基本とする定型詩である

But there are different schools of thought about it:

俳句にとって、季語は大きな役割がある。季語を必ず入れなければならないとする有季(季語絶対)派から、季語よりも季感が大切とする「季感」派、無季でもよいとする無季容認、無季俳句が旧来の俳句的情趣を打破するという「無季」派まで、様々な考え方がある。

2 Likes

Vertically! I saw some haiku written in a one line string but I thought it was some quirky layout not something you could legit do.

It is for her last project before graduation indeed!

3 Likes

Don’t sweat it. It takes some getting used to when you start out. :slight_smile:

Then I figure you might want to know that this line-by-line, upper-middle-lower layout seems common.

I see. I saw these three on this page, but I’m not sure if they all have 季語:
「定位置に夫と茶筒と守宮かな」
「セーターにもぐり出られぬかもしれぬ」
「恋文の起承転転さくらんぼ」
I mean, I guess the last two kinda do, because there are plants or clothing mentioned, but I don’t know about the first. (I’m having trouble understanding all three, honestly. The second is probably the easiest.)

2 Likes

OK, I have an idea. If we want a version with 季語, since the silence is the silence of winter, how about
ふゆもだ The silence of winter (for the last line, I mean)

It doesn’t really match the original, unfortunately, but if we’re trying to stick to tradition…

(I didn’t actually know about もだ until a few moments ago. I just wanted to try my luck with もく(黙), and my dictionary told me that exists. The definitions:

① 黙っていること。「なかなかに―もあらましを何すとか」〈万葉集•612〉
② 何もしないでいること。「咲けりとも知らずしあらば―もあらむこの山吹を見せつつもとな」〈万葉集•3976〉

It kinda seems like something for a person’s silence or inactivity, but poetic licence and all… we could just say that it’s the silence of nature/the landscape.)

2 Likes

I found this one on the List of kigo page on Wikipedia, apparently it’s a gecko, that represents summer.

3 Likes

Ah, so that was the link! I saw ‘gecko’ in my EN-JP dictionary, but I had no idea how that might help.

Does this one have a 字余り though? The second line seems to be 8 morae long because of the っ in 夫. Unless there’s another reading? (PS: I was a bit lost initially as to the second と, but I just remembered that repeating と after the final element is possible and the whole thing means something like ‘both’.)

2 Likes

Looks like it!

Unless you pronounce 夫 as つま…:

つま【▽夫/妻】

《「端(つま)」の意》

夫婦恋人が、互いに相手を呼ぶ称。

2 Likes

Yup, I saw this one too, but I wasn’t sure if that’s what the writer wanted… it’s cool that you can technically use the same reading for either word, even if it’s not common, particularly since Japanese is usually so clearly gendered.

2 Likes

Unless you find a version with furigana, or ask the writer herself, we’ll never know…

4 Likes

Would be nice to juxtapose the cold of winter, with the hotness of the feelings… And maybe that would give the last line that little twist?

But the painting looks more like spring, with the flower that just bloomed but loses its petals. Though the song sounds more like fall/winter with the wasting away…

Anyway, I don’t think straining to put a kigo in there, while straying from the original sentiment is the best course of action… but ultimately it’s @AnotherBadWeed 's sister who has to make the call :rofl: Quite inundated with suggestions and information and all!

4 Likes

That’s what I thought. :slight_smile:

Hm… yeah, maybe. Well, spring can be cold too. 「寒い黙」then? It’s not as clear, but it gives people a hint of what season it might be. (Provided one thinks to associate the cold with a season.)

Yup. Hope all this has been helpful, ultimately. :grin:

3 Likes

It was fun for us, at least! :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

4 Likes

I want to try too!

愛憎(あいぞう)(こころ)(ほのお)寒月(かんげつ)かな

I used the kigo 寒月(かんげつ) (winter moon) to implicitly evoke the feeling of silence
Don’t kill me for using two kireji

4 Likes

Thanks a lot for all your contributions! She wants to keep out the "silence of winter"bbecause it’s a bit too obvious of a reference but I totally get that it was cool in contrast with 炎

@Kumirei I just learnt about kireji thanks to you. That’s a cool concept.
And good job writing your own haiku.I like it!

3 Likes