Genki 2 Study Group [Studying Chapter 21]

Ok, updated the title to move on to chapter 20, long overdue haha.

Thoughts on the chapter 19 points:

  • Honorific Verbs

I think I forgot all these already :sweat_smile: Good to know if keigo ever turns up in a book, but not going to have any production needs any time soon.

  • Giving respectful advice

This one is easy to understand.

  • てくれてありがとう

Also easy to understand

  • てよかったです

This is kind of like the ばよかった point, where I’ve seen it plenty of times which means I find it difficult to translate it in my head as ‘i’m glad that I x.’ I think of it more literally like ‘it’s good that I x.’ Eventually translating in my head should go away anyways, so I can’t imagine it matters much if the meaning comes across.

  • はずです

This was the only completely new feeling grammar point! I read this, and thought, I’ve never seen this “”“” はず “”“”" before in my life. Then I immediately saw it in Fushigi Sweet Shop like one day after reading it. This really feels like the only grammar point that was teaching me something new this chapter. (Besides keigo, which is its own thing, and the verbs pretty much just amount to extra vocabulary to memorize if I’m so inclined)

Realized after finishing that there are only 4 more chapters left, which suddenly feels doable. Motivated to continue on now!

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It’s so funny when that happens. It makes me realise how much it’s possible to skim over when reading extensively.

Me too! I’ll see if I can come up with a way to get a bit more engaged in the last chapters!

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Lol yep, and proves that targeted grammar study is still necessary :sweat_smile:

We can do it!! :man_dancing:

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Example of はず in japanese HP:

Summary

(Harry is looking at Dumbledore’s chocolate frog card) Highlighted: “You can’t expect him to be there all day.”

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Finished Andy’s video for Chapter 20! Thoughts on the Chapter 20 grammar points:

  • Extra-modest Expressions/Humble Expressions

More keigo. I’m putting a pin :round_pushpin: in keigo to come back to later when I want to take a closer look at it.

  • ないで

Easy and self explanatory

  • Questions within Larger Sentences

It was good to take a look at this. かどうか was new to me, and taking a minute to break down embedded questions in general was a nice lesson since I’ve seen them fairly often in reading.

  • Name という item

This one seemed so easy I was surprised it hadn’t been covered before. Maybe ということ had been covered before?

  • 〜やすい / 〜にくい

These were new to me but very useful and easy to understand.

@mitrac have you read this chapter? And @willthelearner how you doing?

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Hey!

Well done @soggyboy, I’ve kinda gone back to Bunpro so there are some bits and pieces I know from chapters 19 & 20 but I haven’t studied them formally! Been wanting to watch Andy’s videos, but for the last couple weeks I’ve just been really enjoying reading, be it manga or satori reader. Even playing some games in Japanese, something I’ve wanted to get into for a while but never been brave enough lol.

I will get chapters 19 and 20 videos watched and chapters read by the end of the week! Formal commitment!

Had a good laugh at this lil 1 min video last night. Relevant to genki I swear !

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Nice breakdown!!

I’m finding a weird effect where I’m mostly familiar with the grammar points, so Genki feels too easy, but I definitely need more practice because when I try to use these points I mix up similar ones or how it actually functions. All part of the process I guess, but I’m thinking of ways to use the text more creatively for production practice. Maybe I’ll make a bingo card of grammar points to use in conversation or something…

The first time I tried a やすい construction I put it in front of the verb :sweat_smile: but my friend understood and corrected me

My biggest sticking point is keeping clear humble vs honorific points, with many covered in the last few chapters. But I have to admit I’ve gotten a lot more than I thought I could from just reading Genki reading in Japanese, and reread Genki now and then. I’m starting to recognise more and more. For example, when I started reading ふしぎ駄菓子屋 I thought Beniko talked in a made up dialect but now having gone through books 1 and 2 I see she’s used all the Genki polite and humble forms! So that was helpful to think back on and realise I’ve definitely learned a lot and these forms were helpful to understanding her character. So I’m secretly thankful we’re going slow because it means I pick up Genki more casually over a longer period and notice stuff like that

It feels at least pretty derivative of the core quoting meaning, and it’s so common you must have read it a thousand times by now!

We learn this as ‘difficult to…’ and I occasionally hear it in my class, but I’m not sure I’ve ever read it used like that. Probably i just didn’t notice. My friend always says むずかしい though instead. I don’t know if it’s why, but just learned with a different kanji にくい also means hateful! So… caution! I wonder if that double homophonic meaning gives this word a more negative feeling…

:joy::sob:

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That’s great!!! I’m loving reading in Japanese too, I spend so little time in comparison on grammar study.

:muscle: :muscle: I believe in you!

That’s a cute idea!

This maay be something that can only be solved by messing up and being corrected, though, like your やすい example. I bet you won’t forget how to use it now :grinning:

Yes! I love reading about something in Genki, then seeing it pop up in the Japanese reading I’m doing.

I’ve been surprised at how many points I feel like I already know because I’ve picked them up from reading already. But every chapter still has had a couple things I didn’t know, and that’s obviously useful. Plus it’s just nice to see a formal explanation for something you already instinctually understand to help solidify it.

Whew :sweat_smile:

Hmmm :thinking: Good to keep in mind!

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that keeps me going, too. There’s always a little aha moment about some nuance or a comparison with a similar point I hadn’t thought of. I’m pretty confident with most of Genki I, but I feel like Genki II stuff will take a few turns to fully sink in.

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Reading Ookami-chan, suddenly feeling grateful for the keigo chapters…

image

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Nice one! Another great example of something I totally missed at the time since I hadn’t learned these formal patterns when I read オオカミちゃん

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It’s so funny to notice how much you skim over as a beginner. Even easy manga will have things that become so much more clear as an intermediate learner, like grandpa turtle speaking politely in keigo. It’s actually stuff like this that makes me so much more motivated to keep learning and uncovering more about the language! :mag:

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I read the grammar points of chapter 21 and the first 2 were so enlightening!

The suffering passive (Satori) / affective passive (Genki)

First off love the sense of humour
(Victim)は (villain) に (evil act)
With the example being my friend used my car :joy:

I learned the vanilla / direct passive form right away when reading my first manga because it’s everywhere, lol. So I was super surprised that Genki covered the suffering passive like it’s the main show! How intersting to discover in the footnote that the direct passive is more common in writing than speech - come to think of it that’s right I rarely / never hear my friend use it! And the use of によって is something I understand but haven’t really gotten why it’s used and under what circumstances. It seems Genki is saying that it helps us see this is not the suffering passive. Since reading that I’ve kept an eye out and the niyotte is indeed almost always used with the passive and this trick of seeing it as basically ni but for normal passive is so helpful somehow! Also a bit of a clue that if the actor is a person marked by ni then watch out it’s probably the suffering passive. Alas, if only Japanese was always so explicit lol

With てある

I thought, huh I see this all the time and know this, nothing new here. But the distinction of it generally using a transitive verb whereas gets ている uses the intransitive was so helpful! This is one of those points where I totally understand and distinguish transitive vs intransitive technically, but often it’s not clear when to choose which one, so this was a great example of one way to understand that choice.

I’ve not read the skits in a while… I was thinking of reading them all through in one go, might be more interesting that way. Since we’re so close to the end of the Takeshi / Mary story I feel like it’s time to read it all the way through like a story

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Oh, crud… I’d better get back to reading Genki! I had no Idea what Mitrac was taking about, except bagels having been introduced to “the suffering passive” in a note in Satori Reader.
Lol :laughing::rofl: :cry:

@willthelearner Thank you for linking that video by Jack! I’ve got some middle schoolers going to Japan this month, and I’ve been teaching them from Zero for the last 6 months, and it’s going to be exactly like that for them!

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